A*****a
发帖数: 52743 | 1 不得不承认，现在的Perry说话，答问老练多了
竞选确实锻炼人 |
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 2 Romney, Perry这种就是干实事的人. 比Ron Paul要强多了. |
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 3 Ron Paul is a Medical Doctor, and is still practicing in theprivste sector
while serving in the Congress.
Ron Paul also served in the Air Force.
Ron Paul also voted NO on all that can or draw explicit authorization from
the Constition.
Romney signed government mandate od health insurance.
Perry signed off on taxpayer money subsidizing illegal aliens.
I would rather fewer 实事 like those get done.
Romney will lose in general election for sure. He can't pass the healthcare
debate against OB, and he won't be able to win over religious votes and
libertarian votes, same as Bush senior lost to clintion and Macain lost to
OB. RINOs simply has no chance in general electron.
Ron Paul for 2012!
Or
Rand Paul for 2016!
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Romney, Perry这种就是干实事的人. 比Ron Paul要强多了.
|
s****3
发帖数: 57 | 4 Perry & Romney?
Ron Paul 海外撤军这一项，很多债务问题就解决了。
Ron Paul for 2012 |
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 5 sure those two puppies would do "great" things following their
neocon owners commands
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Romney, Perry这种就是干实事的人. 比Ron Paul要强多了.
|
w***s
发帖数: 4394 | 6 上次美国从海外全面撤军，最后的结果是爆发了第二次世界大战。现在再撤军，是准备
再打第三次世界大战吗？
【在 s****3 的大作中提到】
: Perry & Romney?
: Ron Paul 海外撤军这一项，很多债务问题就解决了。
: Ron Paul for 2012
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 7 US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
this is completely different from the pre-WII world
even without US military all around the world today, nobody dare to attack
US
haveing US's military overseas is just to spend tax payers money to
protect the neocon's international interests. It has no benefit
to the US citizens.
【在 w***s 的大作中提到】
: 上次美国从海外全面撤军，最后的结果是爆发了第二次世界大战。现在再撤军，是准备
: 再打第三次世界大战吗？
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 8 Also, Ron Paul supports to eliminate the Taiwan Relations Act and not to
interfere the Taiwan/Tibet issue with China
any Chinese should support Ron Paul
US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
this is completely different from the pre-WII world
even without US military all around the world today, nobody dare to attack
US
haveing US's military overseas is just to spend tax payers money to
protect the neocon's international interests. It has no benefit
to the US citizens.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
: and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
: this is completely different from the pre-WII world
: even without US military all around the world today, nobody dare to attack
: US
: haveing US's military overseas is just to spend tax payers money to
: protect the neocon's international interests. It has no benefit
: to the US citizens.
|
T******0
发帖数: 1071 | 9 Romney, Perry和Obama 一样，都是wall street puppets.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Romney, Perry这种就是干实事的人. 比Ron Paul要强多了.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 10 还全面撤军? 还真有这种傻叉相信这种事情?
从美国本身来说, 美国的全世界军事力量的存在保证了美国的经济.
从世界来说,美国全球军事存在保证了全球的稳定.
想想好了, 没有美国军事力量存在全世界会发生什么?
亚洲， 中国会把台湾干掉，那么多电脑芯片没了． 中国的周边国家全部变成中国的
附庸，你也别想在泰国开厂了．北朝鲜入侵南朝鲜．ｌｇ，Ｓａｍｓｕｎｇ都别用了．
亚洲，最终中国会和日本打起来， 有没有用核武器很难说．日本最后完蛋了，世界第
二大经济没了．
西欧， 西欧各国都自身难保了， 穆斯林全面入侵西欧各国，欧盟成为欧盟斯坦．东
欧， 俄国重新兼并所有东欧各国．
最后伊朗扔几颗核弹到美国．
到时候Ｒｏｎ Ｐａｕｌ大人想再让美国从头收拾旧山河？ 开国际玩笑阿，
【在 s****3 的大作中提到】
: Perry & Romney?
: Ron Paul 海外撤军这一项，很多债务问题就解决了。
: Ron Paul for 2012
|
|
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 11 扯蛋，拿出Ｐｅｒｒｙ得证据？ Ｐｅｒｒｙ的Ｔｅｘａｓ搞得很好．
【在 T******0 的大作中提到】
: Romney, Perry和Obama 一样，都是wall street puppets.
|
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 12 We are broke. We have spend all of our own money and all chinese money and
all Japanese money.there is no more money coming. We have lost the world
already.
【在 w***s 的大作中提到】
: 上次美国从海外全面撤军，最后的结果是爆发了第二次世界大战。现在再撤军，是准备
: 再打第三次世界大战吗？
|
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 13 remember the Roman Empire?
We are running 9% deficit.
Millitary is about money, nothing else. And we are out of money.
It is over! |
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 14
I have no problem if these happen to be the case. So what?
how are these issues fucking to be related to the US tax payers?
US has enough resources and labors to mine its own business once stopping
policing the world
if the rest of the world implodes, let them be.
many Chinese would be happy to see these although I don't really care
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 还全面撤军? 还真有这种傻叉相信这种事情?
: 从美国本身来说, 美国的全世界军事力量的存在保证了美国的经济.
: 从世界来说,美国全球军事存在保证了全球的稳定.
: 想想好了, 没有美国军事力量存在全世界会发生什么?
: 亚洲， 中国会把台湾干掉，那么多电脑芯片没了． 中国的周边国家全部变成中国的
: 附庸，你也别想在泰国开厂了．北朝鲜入侵南朝鲜．ｌｇ，Ｓａｍｓｕｎｇ都别用了．
: 亚洲，最终中国会和日本打起来， 有没有用核武器很难说．日本最后完蛋了，世界第
: 二大经济没了．
: 西欧， 西欧各国都自身难保了， 穆斯林全面入侵西欧各国，欧盟成为欧盟斯坦．东
: 欧， 俄国重新兼并所有东欧各国．
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 15
As a BM, you better refrain yourself from PA other IDs
I am against Obama as you are
but someone like you on the GOP side are really those making GOP looks
stupid
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 还全面撤军? 还真有这种傻叉相信这种事情?
: 从美国本身来说, 美国的全世界军事力量的存在保证了美国的经济.
: 从世界来说,美国全球军事存在保证了全球的稳定.
: 想想好了, 没有美国军事力量存在全世界会发生什么?
: 亚洲， 中国会把台湾干掉，那么多电脑芯片没了． 中国的周边国家全部变成中国的
: 附庸，你也别想在泰国开厂了．北朝鲜入侵南朝鲜．ｌｇ，Ｓａｍｓｕｎｇ都别用了．
: 亚洲，最终中国会和日本打起来， 有没有用核武器很难说．日本最后完蛋了，世界第
: 二大经济没了．
: 西欧， 西欧各国都自身难保了， 穆斯林全面入侵西欧各国，欧盟成为欧盟斯坦．东
: 欧， 俄国重新兼并所有东欧各国．
|
T******0
发帖数: 1071 | 16 Obama也曾是outsider.被收买很快的。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 扯蛋，拿出Ｐｅｒｒｙ得证据？ Ｐｅｒｒｙ的Ｔｅｘａｓ搞得很好．
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 17 查下我当初的竞选纲领再来说什么PA吧.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
:
: As a BM, you better refrain yourself from PA other IDs
: I am against Obama as you are
: but someone like you on the GOP side are really those making GOP looks
: stupid
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 18 我们有deficit不是因为军事上的花费,当然军事上的花费可以减少,但这个不是重点,重
点是entitlement的减少和其他政策上的改变, 比如移民政策.
【在 T**********1 的大作中提到】
: remember the Roman Empire?
: We are running 9% deficit.
: Millitary is about money, nothing else. And we are out of money.
: It is over!
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 19 我叫你拿perry的证据,你扯疤蟆干什么?
【在 T******0 的大作中提到】
: Obama也曾是outsider.被收买很快的。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 20 在这个globalized的世界, 孤立主义不可能实现.美国不可能独善其身.所以这个只是你
的梦想而已.
anyway, Ron Paul没有任何可能成为共和党候选人.
昨天Bill O'Reilly也说了,Ron即使成为共和党候选人也会被疤蟆轻易击败. 你看Ron的
历史就知道了, 当参议员这么多年,sponsor了无数条法律,只有一条被通过.他那种, 骗
骗一些小年轻还可以,真要拿出来练肯定不行, 你去叫他当个州的州长试一试? 那个州
肯定完蛋.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
:
: As a BM, you better refrain yourself from PA other IDs
: I am against Obama as you are
: but someone like you on the GOP side are really those making GOP looks
: stupid
|
|
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 21 no matter what, you will be choosing between Ron Paul and Obama
if Ron Paul did not get GOP normination, he will certainly run as a 3rd
party
and that will most likely give Obama 4 more years
Ron Paul has waken up enough people and GOP today has to stay with him or
lose it all.
if you dont see this, you are living in your dream world
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 在这个globalized的世界, 孤立主义不可能实现.美国不可能独善其身.所以这个只是你
: 的梦想而已.
: anyway, Ron Paul没有任何可能成为共和党候选人.
: 昨天Bill O'Reilly也说了,Ron即使成为共和党候选人也会被疤蟆轻易击败. 你看Ron的
: 历史就知道了, 当参议员这么多年,sponsor了无数条法律,只有一条被通过.他那种, 骗
: 骗一些小年轻还可以,真要拿出来练肯定不行, 你去叫他当个州的州长试一试? 那个州
: 肯定完蛋.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 22 竞选纲领?
lol
who gave it a shit
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 查下我当初的竞选纲领再来说什么PA吧.
|
r*****d
发帖数: 44 | 23 按照你的逻辑在这个globalized世界如果不干涉他国内政，不武力威胁他国就是孤立主
义了？neocon果然是不用脑子的。
Paul的法案之所以很少通过是因为他认为联邦政府管的太多，背离了宪法本质。
50年前一户只要一个工作就行了，现在双职工压力也很大，美国在目前的政策下日益下
滑是不争的事实。
neocon们也大谈减少政府开支，不过他们只是嘴上说说而已，与名猪党乃是一丘之駱。
Paul在这方面可是玩真的。
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 在这个globalized的世界, 孤立主义不可能实现.美国不可能独善其身.所以这个只是你
: 的梦想而已.
: anyway, Ron Paul没有任何可能成为共和党候选人.
: 昨天Bill O'Reilly也说了,Ron即使成为共和党候选人也会被疤蟆轻易击败. 你看Ron的
: 历史就知道了, 当参议员这么多年,sponsor了无数条法律,只有一条被通过.他那种, 骗
: 骗一些小年轻还可以,真要拿出来练肯定不行, 你去叫他当个州的州长试一试? 那个州
: 肯定完蛋.
|
m******O
发帖数: 596 | 24 Ron Paul在内政方面的主张有一定可取之处，但是他在国际政治、安全和外交方面的主
张简直是一塌糊涂。他所谓的“不干涉主义”，也就是改头换面的孤立主义和绥靖主义。
六七十年前这些个主义流行一时引发了什么大事件，不需要我多讲，各位去稍微翻一下
历史书，或者至少Google一下也好。
对这个楼里的一些观点，我一条一条地拍砖：
1. US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
this
is completely different from the pre-WII world
- 我从来没听过Ron Paul阐述一旦美国的国家利益受到严重威胁，他是否会毫不犹豫地
采取各种手段，包括军事手段加以还击，有这样的总司令的军队，力量再强，没有使用
它的意志，就好比将一把上膛的手枪塞给一个软蛋，遇到个牛二，两巴掌就把他给扇晕
了。
2. even without US military all around the world today, nobody dare to
attack US
- 哈！哈！哈！哈！哈！哈！哈！ 本拉灯同学，还有他以前无数的恐怖主义组织发来
贺电。
3. Haveing US's military overseas is just to spend tax payers money to
protect the neocon's international interests. It has no benefit to the
US
citizens.
- No benifit??? 请教一下：你车里的汽油、家里的便宜电器、厨房里的新鲜水果、身
上的时尚衣服，都是从空气里蹦出来的吗？没有全球部署的美军震慑一帮宵小之辈，保
障四大洋五大洲的商路畅通，街市平静，看看你能不能享受这些benefit。说白了，大家在一条船上，
不管你认不认，在安全利益上，你就是neocon，neocon就是你，明白？
4. We are broke. We have spend all of our own money and all chinese
money
and all Japanese money.there is no more money coming. We have lost the
world already.
Remember the Roman Empire? We are running 9% deficit. Millitary is
about
money, nothing else. And we are out of money. It is over!
- 听着挺咋呼的哈，可是我不象你那么肯定。好，就勉强算你说的是对的： 这个意思
是要Ron Paul挑头打出白旗投降是吧？问题是：向谁投降？美国民众支不支持这种投降
主义和失败主义？我看很悬。老美的脾性是，你要唱衰，他偏和你拧着来，而且历史上
来看，笑到最后的总是老美。
5. 按照你的逻辑在这个globalized世界如果不干涉他国内政，不武力威胁他国就是孤
立主义了？
- 对了！作为世界的领袖，该出手时，就该理直气壮地，大大方方地干涉他国内政和
武力威胁他国。要是美国在1935年干涉一下德国内政，在1937年武力威胁一下日本...
嘿嘿！我就想不通 - 什么时候这两条“不”就成了金科玉律，连碰都碰不得的原罪
了！？ |
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 25 I wont waste time with you
you just need to understand one thing that I mentioned
you have no choice but the one between Ron Paul and Obama
if Ron Paul lost in GOP, he would carry his 20% and run as an independent
a three men contest will give you a result between Paul and Obama anyway
义。
【在 m******O 的大作中提到】
: Ron Paul在内政方面的主张有一定可取之处，但是他在国际政治、安全和外交方面的主
: 张简直是一塌糊涂。他所谓的“不干涉主义”，也就是改头换面的孤立主义和绥靖主义。
: 六七十年前这些个主义流行一时引发了什么大事件，不需要我多讲，各位去稍微翻一下
: 历史书，或者至少Google一下也好。
: 对这个楼里的一些观点，我一条一条地拍砖：
: 1. US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
: and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
: this
: is completely different from the pre-WII world
: - 我从来没听过Ron Paul阐述一旦美国的国家利益受到严重威胁，他是否会毫不犹豫地
|
m******O
发帖数: 596 | 26 不客气,如果是鸡同鸭讲(啊哈哈哈),当然大家都不需要浪费时间:
我在帖子里讲的不是他有没有可选性,而是他的国防安全和外交主张,到现在为止,听起
来非常的极端和愚蠢。如果以后他改变立场，显得比较温和一些，也许会赢得更多人（
包括我）的支持。毕竟他的内政方面的一些观点是好的。
相反地，在你的帖子里提到了。如果他一意孤行要从GOP反水出去，我作为一个暂时偏
GOP的independent，当然会有自己的判断，大不了再忍奥八另一个四年。倒是Ron Paul
的狂热粉丝要看清楚形势：毕竟是Ron Paul需要GOP比GOP需要Ron Paul更多。历史上
要另立中央（哈哈哈）的下场，最终都是被边缘化。
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: I wont waste time with you
: you just need to understand one thing that I mentioned
: you have no choice but the one between Ron Paul and Obama
: if Ron Paul lost in GOP, he would carry his 20% and run as an independent
: a three men contest will give you a result between Paul and Obama anyway
:
: 义。
|
h********n
发帖数: 15 | 27 泡饭们的存在，弊大于利。
Paul
【在 m******O 的大作中提到】
: 不客气,如果是鸡同鸭讲(啊哈哈哈),当然大家都不需要浪费时间:
: 我在帖子里讲的不是他有没有可选性,而是他的国防安全和外交主张,到现在为止,听起
: 来非常的极端和愚蠢。如果以后他改变立场，显得比较温和一些，也许会赢得更多人（
: 包括我）的支持。毕竟他的内政方面的一些观点是好的。
: 相反地，在你的帖子里提到了。如果他一意孤行要从GOP反水出去，我作为一个暂时偏
: GOP的independent，当然会有自己的判断，大不了再忍奥八另一个四年。倒是Ron Paul
: 的狂热粉丝要看清楚形势：毕竟是Ron Paul需要GOP比GOP需要Ron Paul更多。历史上
: 要另立中央（哈哈哈）的下场，最终都是被边缘化。
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 28 there are no Ron Paul fan, only constitution fans
four more years of Obama will not be the end of the world for anybody, lol
Paul
【在 m******O 的大作中提到】
: 不客气,如果是鸡同鸭讲(啊哈哈哈),当然大家都不需要浪费时间:
: 我在帖子里讲的不是他有没有可选性,而是他的国防安全和外交主张,到现在为止,听起
: 来非常的极端和愚蠢。如果以后他改变立场，显得比较温和一些，也许会赢得更多人（
: 包括我）的支持。毕竟他的内政方面的一些观点是好的。
: 相反地，在你的帖子里提到了。如果他一意孤行要从GOP反水出去，我作为一个暂时偏
: GOP的independent，当然会有自己的判断，大不了再忍奥八另一个四年。倒是Ron Paul
: 的狂热粉丝要看清楚形势：毕竟是Ron Paul需要GOP比GOP需要Ron Paul更多。历史上
: 要另立中央（哈哈哈）的下场，最终都是被边缘化。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 29 你没有看过Ｒｏｎ的政策吧， 他要求撤掉所有国外的军事基地．这个太搞笑了．我说
了，美国的经济稳定很大程度上取决于ｉｔｓ全球的军事存在．
还要恢复金本位制度，现在所知道的黄金储量大部分都在南非．
【在 r*****d 的大作中提到】
: 按照你的逻辑在这个globalized世界如果不干涉他国内政，不武力威胁他国就是孤立主
: 义了？neocon果然是不用脑子的。
: Paul的法案之所以很少通过是因为他认为联邦政府管的太多，背离了宪法本质。
: 50年前一户只要一个工作就行了，现在双职工压力也很大，美国在目前的政策下日益下
: 滑是不争的事实。
: neocon们也大谈减少政府开支，不过他们只是嘴上说说而已，与名猪党乃是一丘之駱。
: Paul在这方面可是玩真的。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 30 well said. 奇怪这么简单的道理怎么就有人不明白?
义。
【在 m******O 的大作中提到】
: Ron Paul在内政方面的主张有一定可取之处，但是他在国际政治、安全和外交方面的主
: 张简直是一塌糊涂。他所谓的“不干涉主义”，也就是改头换面的孤立主义和绥靖主义。
: 六七十年前这些个主义流行一时引发了什么大事件，不需要我多讲，各位去稍微翻一下
: 历史书，或者至少Google一下也好。
: 对这个楼里的一些观点，我一条一条地拍砖：
: 1. US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
: and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
: this
: is completely different from the pre-WII world
: - 我从来没听过Ron Paul阐述一旦美国的国家利益受到严重威胁，他是否会毫不犹豫地
|
|
|
r*****d
发帖数: 44 | 31 搞笑? 老美发家的时候可没有到处搞军事基地, 反观历史上的帝国都是搞
军事扩张完蛋的. 出来混总是要还的, 按照现在政策败家下去,不知道美帝还能
支撑多久.
货币制度当然不能说改就改, Paul也不是要一夜废了联储, 但是应该允许
百姓用脚投金银的票, 这个在宪法里面可是唯一的legal tender.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你没有看过Ｒｏｎ的政策吧， 他要求撤掉所有国外的军事基地．这个太搞笑了．我说
: 了，美国的经济稳定很大程度上取决于ｉｔｓ全球的军事存在．
: 还要恢复金本位制度，现在所知道的黄金储量大部分都在南非．
|
w***s
发帖数: 4394 | 32 你真的要好好补历史了，特别是美国历史。
【在 r*****d 的大作中提到】
: 搞笑? 老美发家的时候可没有到处搞军事基地, 反观历史上的帝国都是搞
: 军事扩张完蛋的. 出来混总是要还的, 按照现在政策败家下去,不知道美帝还能
: 支撑多久.
: 货币制度当然不能说改就改, Paul也不是要一夜废了联储, 但是应该允许
: 百姓用脚投金银的票, 这个在宪法里面可是唯一的legal tender.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 33 I think it is you who need to do more study
【在 w***s 的大作中提到】
: 你真的要好好补历史了，特别是美国历史。
|
w***s
发帖数: 4394 | 34 有这时间斗嘴，还不如去读点书。
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: I think it is you who need to do more study
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 35 sure you should read instead posting here
【在 w***s 的大作中提到】
: 有这时间斗嘴，还不如去读点书。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 36 老美什么时候发家的?
当时谁在全球有军事基地?
罗马帝国不是搞军事扩张衰落的.是经济和社会制度上的变化造成的,实际上当时罗马的
很多情况和现在的美国社会情况差不多.
【在 r*****d 的大作中提到】
: 搞笑? 老美发家的时候可没有到处搞军事基地, 反观历史上的帝国都是搞
: 军事扩张完蛋的. 出来混总是要还的, 按照现在政策败家下去,不知道美帝还能
: 支撑多久.
: 货币制度当然不能说改就改, Paul也不是要一夜废了联储, 但是应该允许
: 百姓用脚投金银的票, 这个在宪法里面可是唯一的legal tender.
|
r*****d
发帖数: 44 | 37 老美发家在2战之前,别忘了美帝的工业化可是在金本位下完成的.
一战的时候美国政府的开支只有国民收入的几个百分点的水平.
军事基地的存在不过是穷兵黩武的表象, 老美当时所谓"孤立主义"的时候
也正是其发家的时期.
从历史上看warfare加welfare向来都是必然导致衰落.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 老美什么时候发家的?
: 当时谁在全球有军事基地?
: 罗马帝国不是搞军事扩张衰落的.是经济和社会制度上的变化造成的,实际上当时罗马的
: 很多情况和现在的美国社会情况差不多.
|
x****o
发帖数: 29677 | 38 从这楼里共和党的支持者言论中我发现，08肯定变成12 |
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 39 支持！
Rome spend too much on military, and then issued too many 劣质coins to finance
it, which caused inflation and that distroyed insentive to work hard, also
distorted citizens' willingness to fight for the country. Weaken economy
and too many barbarians in the Army and too many wars that caused the rise
of Barbarians in the military, those combined destroyed the Empire.
History repeats itself again and again.
金本位是可持续prosperity 必不可少的先决条件。
【在 r*****d 的大作中提到】
: 老美发家在2战之前,别忘了美帝的工业化可是在金本位下完成的.
: 一战的时候美国政府的开支只有国民收入的几个百分点的水平.
: 军事基地的存在不过是穷兵黩武的表象, 老美当时所谓"孤立主义"的时候
: 也正是其发家的时期.
: 从历史上看warfare加welfare向来都是必然导致衰落.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 40 扯蛋, 老美发家是在二战后. 二战后才取得全球领导地位.二战前欧洲列强还是很牛逼
的. 后来他们是自相残杀才大伤元气.
工业化是在金本位下完成的. 那英国,法国的工业化可不是在金本位下完成的呢, 说明
了什么?
全球军事基地的存在因为他们在全球都有利益要保护. 二战前英国能做到这点,所以美
国当时是借了英国的光.
因为经济的发展,所以任何一个发达国家最后必然会有全球经济利益的存在,这个一定要
有军事力量的保护. 假设中国在非洲有大量投资,然后非洲乱起来了,以现在中国的军事
力量根本没有办法保护本国公司的利益. 那么怎么办? 在非洲有军事基地咯.
象霍尔木之海岬, 巴拿马运河, 马六甲海峡,随便哪个被人一卡,美国的经济利益就要损
失很大. 就假设马六甲海峡有海盗肆虐好了, 没有军事力量的保护,肯定不行.
welfare多了肯定不行, 但war没有什么特别大的关系. 当初二战美国牺牲也很大, 航空
母舰就造了一百多艘,那个没关系,只要打仗嬴了后面都可以赚回来. 现在的问题是国内
的人越来越懒, 素质也下降, 每次打仗都因为国内那些沙比们所以不能打赢
【在 r*****d 的大作中提到】
: 老美发家在2战之前,别忘了美帝的工业化可是在金本位下完成的.
: 一战的时候美国政府的开支只有国民收入的几个百分点的水平.
: 军事基地的存在不过是穷兵黩武的表象, 老美当时所谓"孤立主义"的时候
: 也正是其发家的时期.
: 从历史上看warfare加welfare向来都是必然导致衰落.
|
|
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 41 Rome 不是 spend too much on military.
是到了最后社会风气都是穷奢极侈, 玩女人, 搞gay, 普通公民都不愿意去当兵了(而以
前是以当兵为荣的), 所以找了外族做雇佣兵, 最后那些外族雇佣兵不买账造反,那个时
候罗马才真的没有自己的军队打仗, 被外族灭了.
finance
【在 T**********1 的大作中提到】
: 支持！
: Rome spend too much on military, and then issued too many 劣质coins to finance
: it, which caused inflation and that distroyed insentive to work hard, also
: distorted citizens' willingness to fight for the country. Weaken economy
: and too many barbarians in the Army and too many wars that caused the rise
: of Barbarians in the military, those combined destroyed the Empire.
: History repeats itself again and again.
: 金本位是可持续prosperity 必不可少的先决条件。
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 42 you have absolutely no knowledge on history
without the industrilization US developed before WWII, how can it win WWII
they won it based on their strong industrial base developed before WWII
Of coures yes, Newton was known as the greates physicist. But people with
history knowledge know his contribution on gold/silver standard as the head
of the British mint.
who's global interest? the global elites', not US people's
policing world is using US people's tax money to protect the few global
elites' global interest. that's all.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 扯蛋, 老美发家是在二战后. 二战后才取得全球领导地位.二战前欧洲列强还是很牛逼
: 的. 后来他们是自相残杀才大伤元气.
: 工业化是在金本位下完成的. 那英国,法国的工业化可不是在金本位下完成的呢, 说明
: 了什么?
: 全球军事基地的存在因为他们在全球都有利益要保护. 二战前英国能做到这点,所以美
: 国当时是借了英国的光.
: 因为经济的发展,所以任何一个发达国家最后必然会有全球经济利益的存在,这个一定要
: 有军事力量的保护. 假设中国在非洲有大量投资,然后非洲乱起来了,以现在中国的军事
: 力量根本没有办法保护本国公司的利益. 那么怎么办? 在非洲有军事基地咯.
: 象霍尔木之海岬, 巴拿马运河, 马六甲海峡,随便哪个被人一卡,美国的经济利益就要损
|
h********n
发帖数: 15 | 43 古罗马没有正规的史官，历史就是故事，谁都可以来说一说。
有详细记载的，赵宋和晚清的经济都远超列强。因为武功弱给灭了。
不是想争什么,历史从来没有真正的重复过。
不过泡饭们如果不能容下别人的见解，Paul父子永远也实现不了自己的抱负。
finance
【在 T**********1 的大作中提到】
: 支持！
: Rome spend too much on military, and then issued too many 劣质coins to finance
: it, which caused inflation and that distroyed insentive to work hard, also
: distorted citizens' willingness to fight for the country. Weaken economy
: and too many barbarians in the Army and too many wars that caused the rise
: of Barbarians in the military, those combined destroyed the Empire.
: History repeats itself again and again.
: 金本位是可持续prosperity 必不可少的先决条件。
|
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 44 晚清经济远超列强？ 搞笑吧？
宋灭于元时好象武器并不弱，军费也很大，还是输了。（ 不知道武功是?)
Paul 父子have principles: LIBERTY, which means you can have your见解， but
you can not force it on to others.
Paul 父子宫的抱负是you leave others alone.
It seems you are distorting what Dr. Paul wants.
【在 h********n 的大作中提到】
: 古罗马没有正规的史官，历史就是故事，谁都可以来说一说。
: 有详细记载的，赵宋和晚清的经济都远超列强。因为武功弱给灭了。
: 不是想争什么,历史从来没有真正的重复过。
: 不过泡饭们如果不能容下别人的见解，Paul父子永远也实现不了自己的抱负。
:
: finance
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 45 呵呵, 我刚刚贴了就是tg要挑战美国海上霸权, 里面也说了,美国二战后才真正有了全
球霸权. 前面还差点.
head
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: you have absolutely no knowledge on history
:
: without the industrilization US developed before WWII, how can it win WWII
: they won it based on their strong industrial base developed before WWII
: Of coures yes, Newton was known as the greates physicist. But people with
: history knowledge know his contribution on gold/silver standard as the head
: of the British mint.
: who's global interest? the global elites', not US people's
: policing world is using US people's tax money to protect the few global
: elites' global interest. that's all.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 46 US became a super power after WWII because they won WWII
If Hitler won, he would have been the super power
the question is how can you make sure you win
you have to have a strong industry and financial resource to support your
battle
today US has neither so even you want to see the US maintian its super power
you have to focus on retracing a bit and building those foundations inside
before you can launch your next marching. Streching out to another war
against
IRAN could only make US more vulnerable in the long run
If Hitler did not strech too much and fight both USSR and US, he would have
a better chance to win. The same went to USSR, if they did not over weighted
on their military and super power, they might have survived.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵, 我刚刚贴了就是tg要挑战美国海上霸权, 里面也说了,美国二战后才真正有了全
: 球霸权. 前面还差点.
:
: head
|
t*b
发帖数: 850 | 47 Perry is a good candidate except he is too socially conservative.
he deserves better than where he is now (in the polls).
I think his remarks on social security is a Ponzi scheme hurts him a lot. |
t*b
发帖数: 850 | 48 you are wrong.
It is not always about real military strength, it is more about perception.
You are right that no country will attack US land. But there will be more
and more countries that will not follow US.
You are wrong that overseas military presence is no benefit to US citizens.
Russian also has enough nuclear power to wipe off anything on Earth many
times, why countries don't follow Russian?
Strong militray presence (note the word presence) is a threat that nobody
says, nobody discusses, but it silently force other countries to follow USA.
Obama's plan is to shift military spending to domestic wellfare programs:
-shrink military, meaning weaken GOP base support
-increase or at least maintain social wellfare programs, stabilize his
liberal base
-overall spending cut can be achieved, say " I cut government spending,
reduce debt"
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: US's nuclear power is enough to wipe out the entire planet many times
: and it's military spending is the sum of the next 15 countries combined
: this is completely different from the pre-WII world
: even without US military all around the world today, nobody dare to attack
: US
: haveing US's military overseas is just to spend tax payers money to
: protect the neocon's international interests. It has no benefit
: to the US citizens.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 49 你讲错了, 当时美国,英国,德国和俄国都有这个力量,问题是二战前期除美国之外的国
家都打得两败俱伤, 美国是后期加入才成为赢家的. 理论上, 如果当时美国加入德国联
盟的话,英国和俄国也会被干掉.
但二战前当时美国并没有绝对全球霸权, 所以当时没有很多军事基地也很正常.
另外苏联倒掉除了经济原因外,还有一个重要原因是它内部的很多地区其实很独立,象乌
克兰那种, 可以自成一个国家的. 中国和美国就没有这种情况.
power
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: US became a super power after WWII because they won WWII
: If Hitler won, he would have been the super power
: the question is how can you make sure you win
: you have to have a strong industry and financial resource to support your
: battle
: today US has neither so even you want to see the US maintian its super power
: you have to focus on retracing a bit and building those foundations inside
: before you can launch your next marching. Streching out to another war
: against
: IRAN could only make US more vulnerable in the long run
|
t*b
发帖数: 850 | 50 The biggest problem for relection is that because he never tried to be the
President of all Americans, there are so much people hate him.
Obama is only interested in satifying his followers and his base.
a pure opportunistic politician. |
|
|
T**********1
发帖数: 2406 | 51 OB or Rom, matters not much.
We are broke , and we are getting brokerrrrrrr.
Once your national debt passes 100%, which means your whole Economy can not
support your national debt, you have passed the point of no return unless
you generate absolute budget surplus, right away, not just primary surplus.
I think we have just past 100%. No one except Ron Paul is talking about
balanceed budget quickly.
So if not RonPaul, none others would matter.
Hello! Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, we are coming.
【在 t*b 的大作中提到】
: The biggest problem for relection is that because he never tried to be the
: President of all Americans, there are so much people hate him.
: Obama is only interested in satifying his followers and his base.
: a pure opportunistic politician.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 52
so US should follow the way it became a super power: letting the rest of
the world fight with themselves and US just need to focus on developing
internally and getting involved later.
so without those bases, US still grew into a super power. Today, US can
repeat it again by cutting back a bit and expanding again after growing
its strength out of the recession.
US has a very divided public too
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: 你讲错了, 当时美国,英国,德国和俄国都有这个力量,问题是二战前期除美国之外的国
: 家都打得两败俱伤, 美国是后期加入才成为赢家的. 理论上, 如果当时美国加入德国联
: 盟的话,英国和俄国也会被干掉.
: 但二战前当时美国并没有绝对全球霸权, 所以当时没有很多军事基地也很正常.
: 另外苏联倒掉除了经济原因外,还有一个重要原因是它内部的很多地区其实很独立,象乌
: 克兰那种, 可以自成一个国家的. 中国和美国就没有这种情况.
:
: power
|
h********n
发帖数: 15 | 53
鸦片战争爆发的1840年，大清国的GDP占全世界GDP的33%.
文治武功。难道除了武侠小说，就没听说过？
"LIBERTY", 你说的太对了。
So, you should leave BM alone.
我想，我对Paul的理解不比你差。
【在 T**********1 的大作中提到】
: 晚清经济远超列强？ 搞笑吧？
: 宋灭于元时好象武器并不弱，军费也很大，还是输了。（ 不知道武功是?)
: Paul 父子have principles: LIBERTY, which means you can have your见解， but
: you can not force it on to others.
: Paul 父子宫的抱负是you leave others alone.
: It seems you are distorting what Dr. Paul wants.
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 54
It is not that history does not repeat itself, it is your example is
a totoally different case.
It is the current foreign polich that does not leave us tax payer alone
when they are wasting our tax payers' money on either domestic welfare
or policing the world, Dr Paul and his followers just want to have their
voices out and try to cut these wastes
you can think whatever you want
【在 h********n 的大作中提到】
:
: 鸦片战争爆发的1840年，大清国的GDP占全世界GDP的33%.
: 文治武功。难道除了武侠小说，就没听说过？
: "LIBERTY", 你说的太对了。
: So, you should leave BM alone.
: 我想，我对Paul的理解不比你差。
|
h********n
发帖数: 15 | 55
I am not interested in Rome history, which was wrote by people lived a
thousand year after. But, clearly, Rome empire is more like USSR, but far
different from the current USA. On the other hand,isolationism in China was
more or less like some libertarians purposed for USA.
They are not wastes, but failed investments. However, no investment is
guaranteed. US should change its investment strategies, or the tax payers
should be allowed to opt-out from failed investments.
Thank you.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
:
: It is not that history does not repeat itself, it is your example is
: a totoally different case.
: It is the current foreign polich that does not leave us tax payer alone
: when they are wasting our tax payers' money on either domestic welfare
: or policing the world, Dr Paul and his followers just want to have their
: voices out and try to cut these wastes
: you can think whatever you want
|
k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 56
was
Neither Song or Qing had a military force capable of protecting their wealth
so their richness was just inviting more greedy pirates. This is clearly
not the case for the US who spends on military more than at least the
next 10 countries combined. US does not have to cut spending on defence.
Cutting those global bases would not make the US weak on its military force,
so comparing this to Qing or Song was just laughable. Having a strong
economy is necessary but not adequate. You just need to be clear on this
simple logic before comparing history.
You can spin whatever ways you want by mixing up wastes and failed
investments.
But you have to treat the demostic and military spending equally. Otherwise
you will never bring the two sides together to cut anyting. Dr.
Paul's proposal is cut both. That's the fact. The other two sides,
we know where they want to cut and where they want to save their asses so
there is just no hope that they will really make a deal to cut anything. We
will just watch this ship sinking faster.
I agree with you on the opt-out idea. Dr. Paul's proposal includes an opt-
out
of SS. On military spending, a war tax and military draft should be added
if people really want to go to another war.
【在 h********n 的大作中提到】
:
: I am not interested in Rome history, which was wrote by people lived a
: thousand year after. But, clearly, Rome empire is more like USSR, but far
: different from the current USA. On the other hand,isolationism in China was
: more or less like some libertarians purposed for USA.
: They are not wastes, but failed investments. However, no investment is
: guaranteed. US should change its investment strategies, or the tax payers
: should be allowed to opt-out from failed investments.
: Thank you.
|
d*****u
发帖数: 17243 | 57 I'm a Chinese citizen living in the US.
Honestly I hope I can witness China beats the US some day.
【在 T**********1 的大作中提到】
: We are broke. We have spend all of our own money and all chinese money and
: all Japanese money.there is no more money coming. We have lost the world
: already.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 58 Beats US? China already did that in table tennis match.
【在 d*****u 的大作中提到】
: I'm a Chinese citizen living in the US.
: Honestly I hope I can witness China beats the US some day.
|
d*****u
发帖数: 17243 | 59 So you consider yourself a conservative American?
This is rare among first-generation immigrants.
【在 l****z 的大作中提到】
: Beats US? China already did that in table tennis match.
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 60 Is it rare for a first general immigrant to be democrap party? I saw many.
I am in the middle of the road.
【在 d*****u 的大作中提到】
: So you consider yourself a conservative American?
: This is rare among first-generation immigrants.
|
