c******r
发帖数: 889 | 1 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。 |
p*****e
发帖数: 7299 | 2 举债。
现在已经早已超过了偿还能力，寅吃卯粮难以为继，欧洲各国开始头痛了，闹事、罢工
、考虑改革。。。 |
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 3 More importantly, their insurance costs half of what US insurance cost.
Their problem is that those countries have permanent unemployment benefit.
So the unemployment rate is around 10% in good and bad time.
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
e***s
发帖数: 1397 | 4 1. Believe or not, EU's healthcare level is much lower than US. Lots of
common procedures are not seen or not widely used at all in EU;
2. EU does not have so much junk population like US.
3. EU's socialism system is bankrupting. I have met lots of EU colleagues,
Belgium, France, UK, even Germany, almost none of them think their systems
will last.
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
p*****e
发帖数: 7299 | 5 没说到根本。
所谓保险半价和高失业率都是政府无限制举债、高税收抑制了经济活力这个寅吃卯粮文
化根本原因造成的。
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: More importantly, their insurance costs half of what US insurance cost.
: Their problem is that those countries have permanent unemployment benefit.
: So the unemployment rate is around 10% in good and bad time.
|
A*****a
发帖数: 52743 | 6 中国不是也有过公费医疗
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 7 We judge the quality of a health care system on statistics of 平均寿命和婴儿
死亡率 not on the propaganda shits like "performing ass advanced procedure"
that reduce life. The problem of US is that the income of doctors are
correlated with how many drugs you take and how many advanced procedures you
do but surprisingly not on the outcome of your treatment. For example,
doctors here always have incentives to drug you to get more payment from
insurance companies, although all those shits cost you more money.
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
c******r
发帖数: 889 | 8 奥，明白了。
举债是不能长久的。
看来，根本问题还是医疗技术是不成熟的，靠经验，投入产出效率太低，成本低不下来。
要像教育成本一样。那样全民谁也没意见。
美好意愿和严酷现实的矛盾啊。
共产主义还是无法实现啊，这个物质极大丰富还不是现实。
估计得到全面机器奴隶那一天。 |
N********n
发帖数: 8363 | 9
They all go the way of Greece and Iceland at the end. You can only spend
as much as you earn. Running welfare spending beyond your means will land
you in chapter 11, and that's what is happening right now in Europe. You
can see fiscal collapse all over the place in Iceland, Ireland, Greece,
Portugal, Italy, Spain, Baltic nations, Hungary, France, UK ...
"The trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other
people's money." - Maragret Thatcher
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
c******r
发帖数: 889 | 10 只限城镇居民，企业职工。
农民嘛也没有。
那不是全民医疗。
【在 A*****a 的大作中提到】
: 中国不是也有过公费医疗
|
|
|
c******r
发帖数: 889 | 11 那看来还是只能靠自己。
有钱有健康。
哪里都一样。
【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: They all go the way of Greece and Iceland at the end. You can only spend
: as much as you earn. Running welfare spending beyond your means will land
: you in chapter 11, and that's what is happening right now in Europe. You
: can see fiscal collapse all over the place in Iceland, Ireland, Greece,
: Portugal, Italy, Spain, Baltic nations, Hungary, France, UK ...
: "The trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other
: people's money." - Maragret Thatcher
|
p*****e
发帖数: 7299 | 12 说到quality，欧洲同学更有发言权。
只说加拿大，被左奴推崇为欧洲式社会主义典范之一，质量如何，大家太清楚了，一堆
亲友在那边，呵呵。。。
you
Meanwhile
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: We judge the quality of a health care system on statistics of 平均寿命和婴儿
: 死亡率 not on the propaganda shits like "performing ass advanced procedure"
: that reduce life. The problem of US is that the income of doctors are
: correlated with how many drugs you take and how many advanced procedures you
: do but surprisingly not on the outcome of your treatment. For example,
: doctors here always have incentives to drug you to get more payment from
: insurance companies, although all those shits cost you more money.
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 13 IF Europe adopted Amerikkan's expensive system, their welfare systems would
be broken a long time ago. Obama's plan is closer to Europe's system in
order to delay the bankruptcy of USA. If this reform does not work, race
down to the bottom begins.
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
m*********a
发帖数: 3299 | 14 I mean that US will not be able to pay its debts. Fed has to recruit people
to print dollar day and night and inflates dollar to zero. Zimbabwean will
laugh their ass off. Welcome $1000000000000 bill in your wallet.
would
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: IF Europe adopted Amerikkan's expensive system, their welfare systems would
: be broken a long time ago. Obama's plan is closer to Europe's system in
: order to delay the bankruptcy of USA. If this reform does not work, race
: down to the bottom begins.
|
p*****e
发帖数: 7299 | 15 假设历史会自搧耳光的。
就好像侯赛因说如果不通过stimulus plan，失业率会超过10%，通过呢，保证失业率8%
一下，这都是电视上空口白牙、报纸上白纸黑字的哟。。。
结果呢，比被大家包括侯赛因左奴痛斥的小布什印的钱还多n倍，实际失业率20%。。。
枉顾事实的逻辑劈叉能给你带来自搧耳光的快感，呵呵。。。
would
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: IF Europe adopted Amerikkan's expensive system, their welfare systems would
: be broken a long time ago. Obama's plan is closer to Europe's system in
: order to delay the bankruptcy of USA. If this reform does not work, race
: down to the bottom begins.
|
p*****e
发帖数: 7299 | 16 侯赛因的逻辑就是因为债务赤字多了所以更要多收税、多举债、多花钱。
这是纵火犯的逻辑，房子着火了，不能抓纵火犯，要让纵火犯泼油救火。
people
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I mean that US will not be able to pay its debts. Fed has to recruit people
: to print dollar day and night and inflates dollar to zero. Zimbabwean will
: laugh their ass off. Welcome $1000000000000 bill in your wallet.
:
: would
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 17 French government to tackle surging health care deficit
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5863CN20090907
After a 4.4 billion euro ($6.31 billion) shortfall in the health budget in
2008, Woerth said he expected the deficit to hit 10 billion euros this year
and 15 billion next, with the economic downturn denting social security
contributions.
希腊已经彻底共产完蛋了，现在正上街。
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
money
【在 c******r 的大作中提到】
: 看讨论这么热烈，两面都有相当有力的论点。
: 我没有太深入了解过，还没有自己的观点。
: 就是好奇为什么欧洲国家能做到全民医疗的？
: 好像医疗水平也不低啊。从平均寿命和婴儿死亡率来说。
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 18 because socialism is a ponzi game to start with.
thank god we just tried portion of socialism as medicare, even that runs to
the ground. And obama now want it for all the american people.
people
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I mean that US will not be able to pay its debts. Fed has to recruit people
: to print dollar day and night and inflates dollar to zero. Zimbabwean will
: laugh their ass off. Welcome $1000000000000 bill in your wallet.
:
: would
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 19 So Europe is going broke anyway, why would America follow them? Obama is
not slowing down bankruptcy of USA, he is tripling the speed. Just look at
the speed the national debt is raking up. The timing of this bill is the
worse, we need to take care of jobs first.
would
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: IF Europe adopted Amerikkan's expensive system, their welfare systems would
: be broken a long time ago. Obama's plan is closer to Europe's system in
: order to delay the bankruptcy of USA. If this reform does not work, race
: down to the bottom begins.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 20 共产中国，苏联的昨天，就是共产欧洲的今天，就是共产美国的明天。
共产的过程各不一样，共产的结果只有一个。
year
’s
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: French government to tackle surging health care deficit
: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5863CN20090907
: After a 4.4 billion euro ($6.31 billion) shortfall in the health budget in
: 2008, Woerth said he expected the deficit to hit 10 billion euros this year
: and 15 billion next, with the economic downturn denting social security
: contributions.
: 希腊已经彻底共产完蛋了，现在正上街。
: The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
: money
|
|
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 21 美国政府搞medicare的记录很糟糕。民主党说清查medicare欺诈能给新医保提供资金，
可是联邦政府为了追回1.48B花了1.13B。支持医保议案的人从来不考虑多增加官僚机构
的浪费，一个是不事生产的冗员的花费，一个是反正不是自己的钱，浪费也不心疼。而
且那么多地方都在浪费，纳税人已经管不过来，这就是为什么很多民众不愿意支持这个
议案，钱还是自己花的放心。
$1.48 billion from Medicare and Medicaid fraud through enforcement programs
that cost taxpayers $1.13 billion. Once these enforcement costs are
subtracted, the government only recovered $350 million.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Rep-Darrel-T-Issa-The-lackluster-record-of-governm
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 共产中国，苏联的昨天，就是共产欧洲的今天，就是共产美国的明天。
: 共产的过程各不一样，共产的结果只有一个。
:
: year
: ’s
|
d****i
发帖数: 4354 | 22 Each year, the government spends an average of $927 in administrative costs
per person for Medicaid and $509 for Medicare. Private insurance, on the
other hand, costs only $453 per person in administrative costs.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Rep-Darrel-T-Issa-The-lackluster-record-of-government-health-care-88463012.html#ixzz0igcYhsm7
programs
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 美国政府搞medicare的记录很糟糕。民主党说清查medicare欺诈能给新医保提供资金，
: 可是联邦政府为了追回1.48B花了1.13B。支持医保议案的人从来不考虑多增加官僚机构
: 的浪费，一个是不事生产的冗员的花费，一个是反正不是自己的钱，浪费也不心疼。而
: 且那么多地方都在浪费，纳税人已经管不过来，这就是为什么很多民众不愿意支持这个
: 议案，钱还是自己花的放心。
: $1.48 billion from Medicare and Medicaid fraud through enforcement programs
: that cost taxpayers $1.13 billion. Once these enforcement costs are
: subtracted, the government only recovered $350 million.
: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Rep-Darrel-T-Issa-The-lackluster-record-of-governm
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 23 medicare has 60 billion fraud every year.
6 with 10 zeros, 60,000,000,000, no, you dont read it wrong.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml
programs
【在 d****i 的大作中提到】
: 美国政府搞medicare的记录很糟糕。民主党说清查medicare欺诈能给新医保提供资金，
: 可是联邦政府为了追回1.48B花了1.13B。支持医保议案的人从来不考虑多增加官僚机构
: 的浪费，一个是不事生产的冗员的花费，一个是反正不是自己的钱，浪费也不心疼。而
: 且那么多地方都在浪费，纳税人已经管不过来，这就是为什么很多民众不愿意支持这个
: 议案，钱还是自己花的放心。
: $1.48 billion from Medicare and Medicaid fraud through enforcement programs
: that cost taxpayers $1.13 billion. Once these enforcement costs are
: subtracted, the government only recovered $350 million.
: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Rep-Darrel-T-Issa-The-lackluster-record-of-governm
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 24 i tell everybody the truth,
government dont need any new universal healthcare, they just need to make
sure there is no fraud in medicare, and all people will eventually get
covered by the money they recovered.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: medicare has 60 billion fraud every year.
: 6 with 10 zeros, 60,000,000,000, no, you dont read it wrong.
: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml
:
: programs
|
b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 25 Government calls itself "public servant"
Isn't it the largest fraud in human being's history?
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: i tell everybody the truth,
: government dont need any new universal healthcare, they just need to make
: sure there is no fraud in medicare, and all people will eventually get
: covered by the money they recovered.
|
b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 26 共产是人的本性---懒惰使然, 与生俱来, 不到白骨遍野, 愚民不会觉醒.
人的一生, 难免要经过些真正的大灾大难, 我的父辈祖辈, 都是这样过来的.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 共产中国，苏联的昨天，就是共产欧洲的今天，就是共产美国的明天。
: 共产的过程各不一样，共产的结果只有一个。
:
: year
: ’s
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 27 税也高啊, 法国有20%的VAT呢.
现在PIGS猪4国情况就是一塌糊涂,这种东东没有办法sustain的.
【在 p*****e 的大作中提到】
: 举债。
: 现在已经早已超过了偿还能力，寅吃卯粮难以为继，欧洲各国开始头痛了，闹事、罢工
: 、考虑改革。。。
|
l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 28 津巴布韦人连饭都没得吃呢, 都饿死人了,还笑得动嘛?
people
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】
: I mean that US will not be able to pay its debts. Fed has to recruit people
: to print dollar day and night and inflates dollar to zero. Zimbabwean will
: laugh their ass off. Welcome $1000000000000 bill in your wallet.
:
: would
|
