y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 1 Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - [url=http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2348556]View hand 2348556[/url]
[url=http://www.deucescracked.com/?referrer=converter_dc]DeucesCracked Poker Videos[/url] [url=http://www.handconverter.com]Hand History Converter[/url]
BTN: $28.06
SB: $15.93
BB: $27.91
UTG: $28.72
[b]MP: $53.41[/b]
[b]Hero (CO): $40.33[/b]
[b]Pre Flop:[/b] ($0.35) Hero is CO with K :club: K :diamond:
[color=red]UTG raises to $0.75[/color], [color=red]MP raises to $2[/color],
[color=red]Hero raises to $4.60[/color], [i]4 folds[/i], MP calls $2.60
[b]Flop:[/b] ($10.30) 8 :spade: J :diamond: 2 :heart: [color=#336633](2
players)[/color]
MP checks, [color=red]Hero bets $5.90[/color], [color=red]MP raises to $11.
80[/color], [color=red]Hero raises to $18.10[/color], [color=red]MP raises
to $48.81 all in[/color], Hero calls $17.63 all in
[b]Final Pot:[/b] $81.76
MP shows J :spade: J :club: (three of a kind, Jacks)
Hero shows K :club: K :diamond: (a pair of Kings)
MP wins $39.88
MP wins $39.88
(Rake: $2.00)
http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2348556
Apparently, I do not play well for this hand.
Villain is normal reg, I guess he will not 3Bet utg's open with 22 and 88.
This hand is special because the effective stack involved is 160BB, and the
pot gets 4-beted preflop.
On the flop, I continuation bet for value, because villain has a ton of
worst hands can call my bet. However, considering 160BB effective, do you
guys think I should check one street to pot control?
When I get C/R, I think villain trys to find where he is at. Maybe it is a
paranoid thought.
If I can replay this hand, I will just flat his reraise, and evaluate later
streets.
How will you play this hand? | R******p
发帖数: 35 | 2 I don't like your 4bet sizing pre. You are giving him too good a price to
set mining against you. Make 2-3BB more than a pot size raise would be good.
Once he called, you really want to see a rag flop and hate to see J,Q,or A
on the flop. Check min raising is typically very strong. He could possibly
be doing this with QQ and he would probably never stake off if you click
back. If you really don't believe him, you can call and hope he check the
turn.
I'm not saying b/f KK on this flop is good. If he flop a set, you basically
have to lose some money to him, but whether or not to stake off is crucial
in the long run.
Just my 2 cents.
It sucks to run into a set holding overpair. | q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 3 我觉得这手没有什么问题，逃不掉的，FLOP如果CALL，TURN也会AI的。这种COOLER没什
么好说的，你也有JJ赢KK的时候，长期赢利不是看这种牌的。
4-BET SIZE没有问题，IP这点足够了，如果太大，以后4-BET BLUFF也得相应大了。 | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 4 同意4 bet size 应该value 和bluff balance. 不过这里stack比较 深， size 大一
些也可以， bluff 也可以大一些。如果100bb. 2.5x4 bet 就比较理想。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这手没有什么问题，逃不掉的，FLOP如果CALL，TURN也会AI的。这种COOLER没什
: 么好说的，你也有JJ赢KK的时候，长期赢利不是看这种牌的。
: 4-BET SIZE没有问题，IP这点足够了，如果太大，以后4-BET BLUFF也得相应大了。
| q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 5 说的不错，风暴兄果然见解高人一等。
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 同意4 bet size 应该value 和bluff balance. 不过这里stack比较 深， size 大一
: 些也可以， bluff 也可以大一些。如果100bb. 2.5x4 bet 就比较理想。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 6 From the first glance, I do think the same way.
But I think I could flat call his re-raise on the flop, then my range is
transparent, QQ+, AJ.
If he continues his aggression on the turn, then I can fold my hand. I do
not believe he will try to move me off those kind of strong range with his
bluff on the turn. And let him play honestly.
I do not know exactly how you guys think about this line?
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这手没有什么问题，逃不掉的，FLOP如果CALL，TURN也会AI的。这种COOLER没什
: 么好说的，你也有JJ赢KK的时候，长期赢利不是看这种牌的。
: 4-BET SIZE没有问题，IP这点足够了，如果太大，以后4-BET BLUFF也得相应大了。
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 7 bet size 应该value 和bluff balance.
-----> If you think so, I should 4Bet small because i could have some bluffs
here.
Also by 4Bet small, I can make him spazz out. Do you agree?
In position, I think this 4Bet size is fine. If I were OOP, I will 4Bet a
little larger for sure.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 同意4 bet size 应该value 和bluff balance. 不过这里stack比较 深， size 大一
: 些也可以， bluff 也可以大一些。如果100bb. 2.5x4 bet 就比较理想。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
| y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 8 He could possibly
If I click it back, he probably will stack off with QQ, because it looks
bluffy.
If I call, I do not have any bluff in my range, I do not think he can stack
it off when I call his raise.
Based on that assumption, if I flat call his C/R, I think I could prevent
myself from being stacked off by JJJ/888.
good.
A
basically | q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 9 But he could have QQ,AJ even if he shoves turn. Holding TPTK and playing
like nuts is common at 0.1/0.25. Unless I have read on him that he is very
weak, I would not fold my KK.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: From the first glance, I do think the same way.
: But I think I could flat call his re-raise on the flop, then my range is
: transparent, QQ+, AJ.
: If he continues his aggression on the turn, then I can fold my hand. I do
: not believe he will try to move me off those kind of strong range with his
: bluff on the turn. And let him play honestly.
: I do not know exactly how you guys think about this line?
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 Good point with position. I miss read the hand. I thought u raise then 4
bet out if position, but in fact u cold 4 bet in position. Then the sizing
is definitely good. But once called I would proceed very carefully,
Because your range of cold 4 bet a 3 bettor vs UTG is usually perceived
really strong, AA KK AKmostly. He could totally play as it is with AA to
trap you KK but almost never do this with QQ deep unless you have special
read on a donkey. 3 bet and call shove is not good line on the flop with
your perceived range.
bluffs
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: bet size 应该value 和bluff balance.
: -----> If you think so, I should 4Bet small because i could have some bluffs
: here.
: Also by 4Bet small, I can make him spazz out. Do you agree?
: In position, I think this 4Bet size is fine. If I were OOP, I will 4Bet a
: little larger for sure.
| R******p
发帖数: 35 | 11 I still believe check min raising in ring game is usually very very strong.
I have heard this from a lot of training videos, and it has been proved by
my own experience. It's like limp reraise in live poker.
About the 4bet sizing, I think playing deep is a big concern here. Even we
are in position I still like a much larger size, because position is not
that important in a 4 bet pot.
1. I think if you 4 bet larger, you have a bigger chance to stake off QQ on
a J high flop, considering not many people are capable of folding QQ preflop
. If villain happens to flop a overpair not a set. You are expecting to get
2 streets of value most of the time postflop by not 4 bet big enough. You
miss value here.
2. In this particular hand, if you just flat call pre, your range already
looks super strong here. I would take this conservative line, if I respect
villain given we are deep. Flatting pre is definitely a option but not
optimal.
About balance: I have never play on big site like PS. Do we really NEED a 4
bet bluffing range to be a winning player at this stake? As my understanding
, we need 4 bet bluffing range to punish players who 3 bet light. If we
expect people to fold, why not making our size larger so we can maximize
value when we have a real hand?
In my opinion smaller 4 bet is more like a tournament play or at higher
stake against tougher opponents who are at level 4 and above.
I think the term "balance" is the most overrated thing at micro and small
stake. If we really care about our image, the stats showed on other players'
s HUD. We'd better do the balancing job when we are 100BB deep and playing
smaller pot, not when we are playing deep with a real hand. I could be wrong
though since I am used to play on Bovada where there no screen-name at all.
:P
stack
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: He could possibly
: If I click it back, he probably will stack off with QQ, because it looks
: bluffy.
: If I call, I do not have any bluff in my range, I do not think he can stack
: it off when I call his raise.
: Based on that assumption, if I flat call his C/R, I think I could prevent
: myself from being stacked off by JJJ/888.
: good.
: A
: basically
| s**h
发帖数: 262 | 12 pre-flop 4 bet-sizing is ok, can be a little bigger, not the major issue
here. Flop three-bet is the problem - all worse would fold, all hands had
you beat would shove given the stack size.
Another line worth considering is to check the flop and re-evaluate the turn
and river. The J high rainbow flop is very dry. You were in a way-behind or
way-in-front situation. By checking the flop, you disguise your hand
strength. Since you are in position, you can expect to get value from worse
on two later streets.
,
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - [url=http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2348556]View hand 2348556[/url]
: [url=http://www.deucescracked.com/?referrer=converter_dc]DeucesCracked Poker Videos[/url] [url=http://www.handconverter.com]Hand History Converter[/url]
: BTN: $28.06
: SB: $15.93
: BB: $27.91
: UTG: $28.72
: [b]MP: $53.41[/b]
: [b]Hero (CO): $40.33[/b]
: [b]Pre Flop:[/b] ($0.35) Hero is CO with K :club: K :diamond:
: [color=red]UTG raises to $0.75[/color], [color=red]MP raises to $2[/color],
| d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 13 my2c
usually the thinking level of 6max-25NL is still kind of low. Not many
players care about balancing. I even doubt how much % of players are aware
of it, which ended up playing ABC regardless your rival's style/level/table
dynamic and etc.
It does not mean most players in the pool are dumb tho. Actually the real
reason imo is the % of bad players is so high, which forces a good player to
adjust his play into a more straightforward/simple style.就像打live 1/2一样
，遭遇未知对手，你不是先假设他理解poker的常识，而是先把他当成初学者，只要你
有牌，就会往死里value他，但是没牌不敢轻易bluff他。
记得之前lz提过，这个级别整体的3bet tendency是8%，回到这手牌，有效stack比较深
，MP虽然没有位置，但是，在我看来这8%的range冲着将近1：20的implied odds来flat
你，也是more than enough，相反lz cold 4bet反而range窄得多，这点来看，处于不
利地位，所以postflop需要打得格外小心。flop spr1比5，其实离commit还远，因为自
己是over pair，又是以preflop 4bet aggressor进局，所以内心有commit的倾向是很
正常的，但是不是什么好事。所以按照ABC的打法，postflop适当降低aggression比较
合理。具体来说，flop的3bet比较marginal，而call对手4betshove真的算是crying
crying call了。在同样的spot，我会选择call flop raise，turn再评估。
另外，还想问一个问题，lz经常cold 4bet么？如果不是，那这里你的2x cold 4bet换
成5x cold 4bet差别不大。因为都尼玛很strong啊。而后者还可以避免postflop的
tough spot。而另一方面，kk在这里cold call 3bet在我看来也是很profit的。还是那
句话，不管你使用什么打法，最终目的只有一个maximize value。 | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 帮主到底是打5/10的，发贴果然是精品。 怪不得镇的住帮中那些饼干啊，包子啥的。
。。
请帮主多发帖指导啊。
turn
or
worse
【在 s**h 的大作中提到】
: pre-flop 4 bet-sizing is ok, can be a little bigger, not the major issue
: here. Flop three-bet is the problem - all worse would fold, all hands had
: you beat would shove given the stack size.
: Another line worth considering is to check the flop and re-evaluate the turn
: and river. The J high rainbow flop is very dry. You were in a way-behind or
: way-in-front situation. By checking the flop, you disguise your hand
: strength. Since you are in position, you can expect to get value from worse
: on two later streets.
:
: ,
|
|
