f********a
发帖数: 1109 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: Military
标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调 (转载)
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:39 2011, 美东)
发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: WaterWorld
标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:25 2011, 美东)
李开复作到最高的职位也不过是千把人的头头，老陆管上万人，做的东西是微软除了视
窗最重要的东东，也从来没有看过老陆吹自己是全球副总裁呀 |
s**x
发帖数: 7506 | 2 美国的华人出了那几个 founders, 杨致远， 黄健雄， 邓峰 etc, 好像他是职位最高
的了。
牛人都低调， 怕别人认出来。 :) |
a*t
发帖数: 1309 | 3 QI Lu is a ounder of what?
【在 s**x 的大作中提到】
: 美国的华人出了那几个 founders, 杨致远， 黄健雄， 邓峰 etc, 好像他是职位最高
: 的了。
: 牛人都低调， 怕别人认出来。 :)
|
f*******a
发帖数: 612 | 4 人家写错了一个“出”字，但也不至于影响到阅读理解吧。
【在 a*t 的大作中提到】
: QI Lu is a ounder of what?
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 5 陆奇对自己早年经历的描述, 好象吹嘘的色彩也很浓厚.
Lu has faced tough challenges since he was a boy. Facing persecution during
China's Cultural Revolution, his parents sent him from their Shanghai home
to live with his grandfather in a tiny town in Jiangsu province, five hours
away. Lu lived without electricity or plumbing, and was so poor that meat
was a once-a-year luxury. His first two choices to escape poverty were
closed off: His slight build left him short of government weight mandates
for coveted ship-building jobs, and his eyesight was too poor to pass
requirements for becoming a physicist.
That left computer science, which he hoped might help him land a job in a
radio factory. Instead, after earning his master's degree, he was assigned
to a $10 a month teaching job at Fudan University in Shanghai. One weekend a
rainstorm prevented his weekly bike ride home to see his parents, so he was
in his dorm room when a student knocked and pleaded with him to attend a
talk by Carnegie Mellon professor Edmund M. Clark since only a few students
had showed up. Impressed with Lu's questions, Clark asked to see his
research papers and then offered him a scholarship to earn his PhD—even
waiving the $45 application fee that Lu says he could never have come up
with.
要是他吹个Ed Clark给他买的飞机票的牛就更好了. 买得起机票, 不应该交不起申请费.
再说Yahoo search, Bing都不乍地.
【在 f********a 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: Military
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调 (转载)
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:39 2011, 美东)
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: WaterWorld
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:25 2011, 美东)
: 李开复作到最高的职位也不过是千把人的头头，老陆管上万人，做的东西是微软除了视
: 窗最重要的东东，也从来没有看过老陆吹自己是全球副总裁呀
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 6 他这个master研究生助教也能算fudan的Falcuty? 这比李开复吹牛是CMU教授强吗??
而且他的paper似乎很难查. 就一篇. 导师似乎也并不是Ed Clark...
>>Before joining Yahoo!, Dr. Lu worked as a research staff member at IBM's
Almaden Research Center and Carnegie Mellon University and was a faculty
member at Fudan University in China. He received his bachelor of science and
master of science in computer science from Fudan University and his Ph.D.
in computer science from Carnegie Mellon University. Dr. Lu holds 20 U.S.
patents.
【在 f********a 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: Military
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调 (转载)
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:39 2011, 美东)
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: WaterWorld
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:25 2011, 美东)
: 李开复作到最高的职位也不过是千把人的头头，老陆管上万人，做的东西是微软除了视
: 窗最重要的东东，也从来没有看过老陆吹自己是全球副总裁呀
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 7 谁说了他买得起机票了？
我phd的roommate就是借钱买的机票。来美国几个月之后用奖学金还上的。他也没交申
请费。这还是2000年以后的事情。Lu Qi那时候的中国人更穷
during
hours
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 陆奇对自己早年经历的描述, 好象吹嘘的色彩也很浓厚.
: Lu has faced tough challenges since he was a boy. Facing persecution during
: China's Cultural Revolution, his parents sent him from their Shanghai home
: to live with his grandfather in a tiny town in Jiangsu province, five hours
: away. Lu lived without electricity or plumbing, and was so poor that meat
: was a once-a-year luxury. His first two choices to escape poverty were
: closed off: His slight build left him short of government weight mandates
: for coveted ship-building jobs, and his eyesight was too poor to pass
: requirements for becoming a physicist.
: That left computer science, which he hoped might help him land a job in a
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 8 正常 luqi没必要吹牛 其实没钱出机票很正常的事情 也不是什么牛逼的事情 所以
人家10有89就是没钱买机票没钱出申请费 那个时候才90年代初 老大
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 谁说了他买得起机票了？
: 我phd的roommate就是借钱买的机票。来美国几个月之后用奖学金还上的。他也没交申
: 请费。这还是2000年以后的事情。Lu Qi那时候的中国人更穷
:
: during
: hours
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 9 “after earning his master's degree”，这是在读硕士研究生的意思么？
他有提是faculty吗？
而且以前master留校做讲师的多了，我哥就是。讲师在中国当然算faculty.
and
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 他这个master研究生助教也能算fudan的Falcuty? 这比李开复吹牛是CMU教授强吗??
: 而且他的paper似乎很难查. 就一篇. 导师似乎也并不是Ed Clark...
: >>Before joining Yahoo!, Dr. Lu worked as a research staff member at IBM's
: Almaden Research Center and Carnegie Mellon University and was a faculty
: member at Fudan University in China. He received his bachelor of science and
: master of science in computer science from Fudan University and his Ph.D.
: in computer science from Carnegie Mellon University. Dr. Lu holds 20 U.S.
: patents.
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 10 人家没吹啥 teaching job有啥了 就是faculty 只是不是那么牛逼的faculty
==from wikipedia
Lu studied at Fudan University in Shanghai, China. He was assigned to a $10
a month teaching job in Shanghai after earning his master's degree. After a
weekend rainstorm prevented his weekly bike ride home to see his parents, he
was in his dorm room when a student pleaded with him to attend a poorly
attended talk by Carnegie Mellon professor Edmund M. Clarke. Clarke was
impressed with Lu's questions, and invited him to apply for a PhD at
Carnegie Mellon. Clarke even offered to waive the $45 application fee that
Lu says he could never have come up with. In 1996, Lu graduated with a PhD
in Computer Science from Carnegie Mellon.[2]
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: “after earning his master's degree”，这是在读硕士研究生的意思么？
: 他有提是faculty吗？
: 而且以前master留校做讲师的多了，我哥就是。讲师在中国当然算faculty.
:
: and
|
|
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 11 你回错贴了。你和我说的是一个意思
10
a
he
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: 人家没吹啥 teaching job有啥了 就是faculty 只是不是那么牛逼的faculty
: ==from wikipedia
: Lu studied at Fudan University in Shanghai, China. He was assigned to a $10
: a month teaching job in Shanghai after earning his master's degree. After a
: weekend rainstorm prevented his weekly bike ride home to see his parents, he
: was in his dorm room when a student pleaded with him to attend a poorly
: attended talk by Carnegie Mellon professor Edmund M. Clarke. Clarke was
: impressed with Lu's questions, and invited him to apply for a PhD at
: Carnegie Mellon. Clarke even offered to waive the $45 application fee that
: Lu says he could never have come up with. In 1996, Lu graduated with a PhD
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 12 恩 我回你的贴 是表示支持
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 你回错贴了。你和我说的是一个意思
:
: 10
: a
: he
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 13 If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
to pay application?
As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
include the coda manual he participated in writing.
The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
proficient in Chinese as well.
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 谁说了他买得起机票了？
: 我phd的roommate就是借钱买的机票。来美国几个月之后用奖学金还上的。他也没交申
: 请费。这还是2000年以后的事情。Lu Qi那时候的中国人更穷
:
: during
: hours
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 14 It was in his official bio.
to be honest, I don't know him well. I am curious how
he can rise in 8-10 years from an engineer to SVP/GM of Yahoo/MS.
As a matter of fact, I believe both YHOO and MS happen to be
very corrupted. People like Tang Jun can thrive in MS.
I am not surprised that people like Kaifu Li and Qi Lu would
also play a little dirty.
Both must be very good at 吹牛皮. Otherwise, they would likely be
technicians or professors right now... |
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 15 你悲愤也没有用 人家就领着几千上万人和google竞争
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 16 看我的上一篇回帖 你悲愤也没有用
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: It was in his official bio.
: to be honest, I don't know him well. I am curious how
: he can rise in 8-10 years from an engineer to SVP/GM of Yahoo/MS.
: As a matter of fact, I believe both YHOO and MS happen to be
: very corrupted. People like Tang Jun can thrive in MS.
: I am not surprised that people like Kaifu Li and Qi Lu would
: also play a little dirty.
: Both must be very good at 吹牛皮. Otherwise, they would likely be
: technicians or professors right now...
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 17 一样是混吃等死, 无德无能何必居其位? 实在没看出来Qi Lu把bing作得怎样好. 靠烧钱
和古狗竞争?
Tell me something he is NIU at. Don't tell me he is at a NIU position
le. It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles..
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: 你悲愤也没有用 人家就领着几千上万人和google竞争
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 18 汗 人家当然有能耐了 要不在微软那么牛逼难道完全是运气的因素吗
烧钱
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 一样是混吃等死, 无德无能何必居其位? 实在没看出来Qi Lu把bing作得怎样好. 靠烧钱
: 和古狗竞争?
: Tell me something he is NIU at. Don't tell me he is at a NIU position
: le. It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles..
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 19 靠， 当年waive申请费的多的是
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 20 yeah, yeah, it may be because I was WS, it may be because I was
somewhat poor.
But I am not a liar and I can't put on my biograph that it was
because I was so damn smart that a CMU professor fell in love
with me ...
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 靠， 当年waive申请费的多的是
|
|
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 21 正常的很 cmu的教授看重人家了 让人家申请phd有啥不正常的
cmu的教授怎么啦
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: yeah, yeah, it may be because I was WS, it may be because I was
: somewhat poor.
: But I am not a liar and I can't put on my biograph that it was
: because I was so damn smart that a CMU professor fell in love
: with me ...
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 22 I didn't find other people's comment about his work.
If you say he is a 牛人, tell us what he did.
Don't tell us he is a bull because he has bullshit.
I am not working for GOOG. Don't have GOOG stock. But Bing is
a piece of crap.
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: 汗 人家当然有能耐了 要不在微软那么牛逼难道完全是运气的因素吗
:
: 烧钱
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 23 again 你悲愤也没有用。。。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: I didn't find other people's comment about his work.
: If you say he is a 牛人, tell us what he did.
: Don't tell us he is a bull because he has bullshit.
: I am not working for GOOG. Don't have GOOG stock. But Bing is
: a piece of crap.
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 24 卢奇和你啥关系？
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: again 你悲愤也没有用。。。
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 25 application fee is waivable, ticket fee is not. Understand!
never image anything you don't know or u dont understand!
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 26 那时候美金人民币1:8吧。
一个学校的申请费就是一个多月的工资了。
那时候大家都要求waive 申请费。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: yeah, yeah, it may be because I was WS, it may be because I was
: somewhat poor.
: But I am not a liar and I can't put on my biograph that it was
: because I was so damn smart that a CMU professor fell in love
: with me ...
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 27 Qi sleeped 4 hrs per day. most people cannot do that.
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: It was in his official bio.
: to be honest, I don't know him well. I am curious how
: he can rise in 8-10 years from an engineer to SVP/GM of Yahoo/MS.
: As a matter of fact, I believe both YHOO and MS happen to be
: very corrupted. People like Tang Jun can thrive in MS.
: I am not surprised that people like Kaifu Li and Qi Lu would
: also play a little dirty.
: Both must be very good at 吹牛皮. Otherwise, they would likely be
: technicians or professors right now...
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 28 打酱油的关系 哈哈
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 卢奇和你啥关系？
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 29 $10 一个月换成人民币80￥,
这个作为课时费还是很make sence 的。
it does mean he salary is $10 .
10
a
he
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: 人家没吹啥 teaching job有啥了 就是faculty 只是不是那么牛逼的faculty
: ==from wikipedia
: Lu studied at Fudan University in Shanghai, China. He was assigned to a $10
: a month teaching job in Shanghai after earning his master's degree. After a
: weekend rainstorm prevented his weekly bike ride home to see his parents, he
: was in his dorm room when a student pleaded with him to attend a poorly
: attended talk by Carnegie Mellon professor Edmund M. Clarke. Clarke was
: impressed with Lu's questions, and invited him to apply for a PhD at
: Carnegie Mellon. Clarke even offered to waive the $45 application fee that
: Lu says he could never have come up with. In 1996, Lu graduated with a PhD
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 30 这看和谁比,当然没google founders牛，但比唐骏啥的牛多了
烧钱
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 一样是混吃等死, 无德无能何必居其位? 实在没看出来Qi Lu把bing作得怎样好. 靠烧钱
: 和古狗竞争?
: Tell me something he is NIU at. Don't tell me he is at a NIU position
: le. It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles..
|
|
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 31 you are not from this field bah?
I know Ed Clark's work reasonably well and I know how universities
like CMU operate fairly well. I didn't know much about Qi Lu's background.
It looks quite a stretch to me. It is not what a precise person
would do le.
So all I am saying is that we don't know how bull he is. But
certainly he can blow some bullskin, just like Kaifu Li.
【在 g***y 的大作中提到】
: 正常的很 cmu的教授看重人家了 让人家申请phd有啥不正常的
: cmu的教授怎么啦
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 32 你怎么证明不是这样呢？
找教授面谈陶瓷拿到奖学金的人多了
你没这能力不要以为别人没有
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: yeah, yeah, it may be because I was WS, it may be because I was
: somewhat poor.
: But I am not a liar and I can't put on my biograph that it was
: because I was so damn smart that a CMU professor fell in love
: with me ...
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 33 俺觉得比这板上大多数都牛多了
还别看不起人唐骏， 人唐骏也比这板上的大多数牛。
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 这看和谁比,当然没google founders牛，但比唐骏啥的牛多了
:
: 烧钱
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 34 A donkey sleeps 4 hrs per day. most people can not do that
either...
If that is all we know about him, it is sad.
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: Qi sleeped 4 hrs per day. most people cannot do that.
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 35 你如果只睡4 小时， 是不是能比他牛？
呵呵
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: A donkey sleeps 4 hrs per day. most people can not do that
: either...
: If that is all we know about him, it is sad.
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 36 黑市价almost 1:9
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 那时候美金人民币1:8吧。
: 一个学校的申请费就是一个多月的工资了。
: 那时候大家都要求waive 申请费。
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 37 Like I said, application fee waiver is not up to the professor le.
besides, is ed clark his supervisor?
his article certainly gives people this impression. I think it
is probably not. It is just a typical smoke screen these folks use
le.
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 你怎么证明不是这样呢？
: 找教授面谈陶瓷拿到奖学金的人多了
: 你没这能力不要以为别人没有
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | |
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 39 我可没那这个版上的人和这几个人比，你不要骂错了对象
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 俺觉得比这板上大多数都牛多了
: 还别看不起人唐骏， 人唐骏也比这板上的大多数牛。
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 40 胡搅蛮缠有意思你觉得？
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: A donkey sleeps 4 hrs per day. most people can not do that
: either...
: If that is all we know about him, it is sad.
|
|
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 41 骂 ？
骂啥了？
俺不过就这话题往下说
【在 w*********m 的大作中提到】
: 我可没那这个版上的人和这几个人比，你不要骂错了对象
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 42 It is not worth it.
No. But I am working tonight, watering by the side. Note that I
sleep 4 hrs a day when needed too. But most of the time I finish
my work so damn early that I usually get a 10 hr sleep... |
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 43 if the professor likes to pay it for him, then why cannot up to the
professor la?
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: Like I said, application fee waiver is not up to the professor le.
: besides, is ed clark his supervisor?
: his article certainly gives people this impression. I think it
: is probably not. It is just a typical smoke screen these folks use
: le.
|
w*********m
发帖数: 4740 | 44 "还别看不起人唐骏",我可没有看不起。请别这么说
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 骂 ？
: 骂啥了？
: 俺不过就这话题往下说
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 45 I am not a 牛人, but I guess i am fairly old.
well well I take that as a compliment le... |
F*******t
发帖数: 1283 | 46 你引的那段里也没说陆奇是Clarke的学生呀，这里有多点details:
http://www.carnegiemellontoday.com/article.asp?aid=938
你应该告诉CMU的人去double check 他们的story
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
l******l
发帖数: 2651 | 47 when can we expect the follow-ups of 硅谷风云连载?
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: I am not a 牛人, but I guess i am fairly old.
: well well I take that as a compliment le...
|
l******l
发帖数: 2651 | 48 when can we expect the follow-ups of 硅谷风云连载?
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: I am not a 牛人, but I guess i am fairly old.
: well well I take that as a compliment le...
|
c***d
发帖数: 996 | 49 你是作搜索的么？是不是觉得最近google search进步很快啊。哈哈。
我知道牛人的成功，虽然都是时势，却很少有偶然的。所有和陆奇共事过的人都告诉我
陆奇是他们遇到的最刻苦的人，陆奇在雅虎主管的也不是搜索相关性， 说实话还轮不
到你作方舟子。
during
hours
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 陆奇对自己早年经历的描述, 好象吹嘘的色彩也很浓厚.
: Lu has faced tough challenges since he was a boy. Facing persecution during
: China's Cultural Revolution, his parents sent him from their Shanghai home
: to live with his grandfather in a tiny town in Jiangsu province, five hours
: away. Lu lived without electricity or plumbing, and was so poor that meat
: was a once-a-year luxury. His first two choices to escape poverty were
: closed off: His slight build left him short of government weight mandates
: for coveted ship-building jobs, and his eyesight was too poor to pass
: requirements for becoming a physicist.
: That left computer science, which he hoped might help him land a job in a
|
s********8
发帖数: 264 | 50 陆奇不很聪明， 但是很勤奋。 他成为这莫成功， 除了勤奋， 还有luck. 他在
yahoo头几年就是一线manager, then there were an opportunity to start yahoo
search, he asked to lead that. 这是他人生的又一转折点。
他还有一个优势，他做过老师，public speaking is very good, that's what make
him stand up among all other Chinese engineers. |
|
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 51 你最近这么愤啊
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: yeah, yeah, it may be because I was WS, it may be because I was
: somewhat poor.
: But I am not a liar and I can't put on my biograph that it was
: because I was so damn smart that a CMU professor fell in love
: with me ...
|
R********T
发帖数: 103 | |
a****1
发帖数: 20 | 53 各位不要眼红.
本人以前是yahoo, 现在在微软,都在陆奇手下
不管陆奇才能如何,所谓天道酬勤.在yahoo 和微软, 他十几年如一日的每天工作到九点
以后,早上五点以前起床. 即时作到高位,仍然关注很多技术和产品的细节.
你们谁能做到这一点? |
a****1
发帖数: 20 | 54 各位不要眼红.
本人以前是yahoo, 现在在微软,都在陆奇 department
不管陆奇才能如何,所谓天道酬勤.在yahoo 和微软, 他十几年如一日的每天工作到九点
以后,早上五点以前起床. 即时作到高位,仍然关注很多技术和产品的细节.
你们谁能做到这一点? |
l**t
发帖数: 6971 | 55 大家不服陆奇的原因很简单，陆奇刚到微软的时候已经吵过一次了。不就是因为人家是上海人，还是孵蛋大学的，不是top 2。老中硅工的ws真是无可救药了。你们还是老老实实给IIT毕业老印打工把，绝对比跟着复旦毕业的上海人干有面子。
要说没paper，Google的founders有啥paper？Google那几个老印高管有啥paper？怎么没见你们悲愤啊。工业界混，谁care你几百年前写的那几篇paper。 |
l**t
发帖数: 6971 | 56
申请的时候谁知道能不能成？这个申请费很可能就打水漂了。已经申请到了，飞机票钱
一个月的奖学金就出来了，当然容易借了。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
w******y
发帖数: 8040 | 57 所以这类人只配当一辈子龟公
是上海人，还是孵蛋大学的，不是top 2。老中硅工的ws真是无可救药了。你们还是老
老实实给IIT毕业老印打工把，绝对比跟着复旦毕业的上海人干有面子。
么没见你们悲愤啊。工业界混，谁care你几百年前写的那几篇paper。
【在 l**t 的大作中提到】
: 大家不服陆奇的原因很简单，陆奇刚到微软的时候已经吵过一次了。不就是因为人家是上海人，还是孵蛋大学的，不是top 2。老中硅工的ws真是无可救药了。你们还是老老实实给IIT毕业老印打工把，绝对比跟着复旦毕业的上海人干有面子。
: 要说没paper，Google的founders有啥paper？Google那几个老印高管有啥paper？怎么没见你们悲愤啊。工业界混，谁care你几百年前写的那几篇paper。
|
d********y
发帖数: 416 | 58 能做到那个位置的中国人绝对比大多数同样位置的老美要真才实料多了
是上海人，还是孵蛋大学的，不是top 2。老中硅工的ws真是无可救药了。你们还是老
老实实给IIT毕业老印打工把，绝对比跟着复旦毕业的上海人干有面子。
么没见你们悲愤啊。工业界混，谁care你几百年前写的那几篇paper。
【在 l**t 的大作中提到】
: 大家不服陆奇的原因很简单，陆奇刚到微软的时候已经吵过一次了。不就是因为人家是上海人，还是孵蛋大学的，不是top 2。老中硅工的ws真是无可救药了。你们还是老老实实给IIT毕业老印打工把，绝对比跟着复旦毕业的上海人干有面子。
: 要说没paper，Google的founders有啥paper？Google那几个老印高管有啥paper？怎么没见你们悲愤啊。工业界混，谁care你几百年前写的那几篇paper。
|
g********e
发帖数: 1142 | 59
during
hours
~~~~~~
真是酸啊。
Qi Lu已经是非常低调和务实的人了。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 陆奇对自己早年经历的描述, 好象吹嘘的色彩也很浓厚.
: Lu has faced tough challenges since he was a boy. Facing persecution during
: China's Cultural Revolution, his parents sent him from their Shanghai home
: to live with his grandfather in a tiny town in Jiangsu province, five hours
: away. Lu lived without electricity or plumbing, and was so poor that meat
: was a once-a-year luxury. His first two choices to escape poverty were
: closed off: His slight build left him short of government weight mandates
: for coveted ship-building jobs, and his eyesight was too poor to pass
: requirements for becoming a physicist.
: That left computer science, which he hoped might help him land a job in a
|
C*****e
发帖数: 2102 | 60 这个同学可能是年轻的。在我们那个年代，基本就没人付申请费。一个学校一般是几十
美元，申请六个学校就是三百块。这个，当时是个大数目。所以我们都是申请免申请费
的，等拿到全奖以后买机票的钱家里亲戚总可以凑一下。陆的情况应该也差不多是这样
。教授免申请费这个还是可以的。估计也不需要他太厉害。真，当年我们班70%的出国
，九成以上全奖，九成以上免申请费。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
|
|
l******l
发帖数: 2651 | 61 版史还写吗？
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: 你最近这么愤啊
|
k*********t
发帖数: 2999 | 62 CMU教授当然可以免申请费，别的不少学校教授也能免。CMU计算机学院还有过先去的师
兄去讲讲情就免了师弟妹申请费的。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: Like I said, application fee waiver is not up to the professor le.
: besides, is ed clark his supervisor?
: his article certainly gives people this impression. I think it
: is probably not. It is just a typical smoke screen these folks use
: le.
|
k*********t
发帖数: 2999 | 63 你这也太搞笑了。陆齐开复只会吹牛皮？呵呵，你是不是觉得公司里硅工上头那些搞管
理的都只吹牛不干事，贡献不如你大？
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: you are not from this field bah?
: I know Ed Clark's work reasonably well and I know how universities
: like CMU operate fairly well. I didn't know much about Qi Lu's background.
: It looks quite a stretch to me. It is not what a precise person
: would do le.
: So all I am saying is that we don't know how bull he is. But
: certainly he can blow some bullskin, just like Kaifu Li.
|
d******o
发帖数: 2489 | 64 陆奇是个很实在的人。
【在 f********a 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: Military
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调 (转载)
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:39 2011, 美东)
: 发信人: Odin (风铃), 信区: WaterWorld
: 标 题: 微软的陆奇才是真正的牛人，而且不那么高调
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Dec 1 15:18:25 2011, 美东)
: 李开复作到最高的职位也不过是千把人的头头，老陆管上万人，做的东西是微软除了视
: 窗最重要的东东，也从来没有看过老陆吹自己是全球副总裁呀
|
D*******a
发帖数: 3688 | 65 其实qilu本人不怎么爱吹的，形象很像木讷的留学生。他在各种大会上发言都比较少，
通常都是简单说两句就让手下的vp来接着吹了。
【在 k*********t 的大作中提到】
: 你这也太搞笑了。陆齐开复只会吹牛皮？呵呵，你是不是觉得公司里硅工上头那些搞管
: 理的都只吹牛不干事，贡献不如你大？
|
i**d
发帖数: 357 | 66 Qi 是一个很务实的人，Bing里面的很多人(至少我当时见到周围的人议论的时候)其实
都很服他，觉得他很能干, 很有才能. |
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 67 改天就写了.
【在 l******l 的大作中提到】
: when can we expect the follow-ups of 硅谷风云连载?
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 68 yes. sorry for the delay
【在 l******l 的大作中提到】
: 版史还写吗？
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 69 大家牛粪take多了, 人愤反而不习惯了. 露脐这段经历他自己的几个版本都不一致.
一个是roommate找他, 一个是教授找他, 一个是Ed Clark要了看他的论文, 一会儿只是
他向Ed提起他有论文. 向开复一样, 这人也自吹是SCS第二个中国人. 俺记得Ed
Clark在96之前就毕业过中国学生, 好象没有陆奇. 当然有可能是LQ读得早, 毕业晚.
读了八年. CMU SCS是有读七八年的, 不过象他这样只有一篇文章的还是挺少的. 按
文章看, 他的导师并不是Ed Clark. 似乎和Clark也没什么交情. 提他应该是因为Ed
Clark前两年评了图灵奖. 他自己的导师似乎他没有提过.
奇怪的是, 和惠民博士一样, 有人对他几点睡, 几点起特熟悉. 翻过来说过去, 这
基本上就是他是牛人的证据.
他的个人经历不好说. 但他的战绩是明摆着. 基本上和google一起开始作search,
Yahoo search怎么样? Yahoo搞到这么尴尬, 第一大失败就是search, 到现在
Yahoo search算是彻底完蛋了. 跳到MS干的怎么样? Bing年年巨额亏损. 要不是
MS家大业大, 让陆奇单干, Bing不知道死了多少次了.
俺是局外人. 依我看, 陆齐和Moto, Adobe, Siemens的那些阿三CEO没什么两样.
自己爬得高, 公司跌得惨. 不要因为是老印就骂个狗血喷头, 是老中就捧成了个
对抗老印的英雄.
别说什么没天睡4个钟头了. It is either a lie or a disease.
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: 你最近这么愤啊
|
f******2
发帖数: 2455 | 70 Lu qi在亚胡的时候上这个BBS吗?
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 大家牛粪take多了, 人愤反而不习惯了. 露脐这段经历他自己的几个版本都不一致.
: 一个是roommate找他, 一个是教授找他, 一个是Ed Clark要了看他的论文, 一会儿只是
: 他向Ed提起他有论文. 向开复一样, 这人也自吹是SCS第二个中国人. 俺记得Ed
: Clark在96之前就毕业过中国学生, 好象没有陆奇. 当然有可能是LQ读得早, 毕业晚.
: 读了八年. CMU SCS是有读七八年的, 不过象他这样只有一篇文章的还是挺少的. 按
: 文章看, 他的导师并不是Ed Clark. 似乎和Clark也没什么交情. 提他应该是因为Ed
: Clark前两年评了图灵奖. 他自己的导师似乎他没有提过.
: 奇怪的是, 和惠民博士一样, 有人对他几点睡, 几点起特熟悉. 翻过来说过去, 这
: 基本上就是他是牛人的证据.
: 他的个人经历不好说. 但他的战绩是明摆着. 基本上和google一起开始作search,
|
|
|
i******s
发帖数: 8734 | 71 一天睡4 个小时还来上bbs?
【在 f******2 的大作中提到】
: Lu qi在亚胡的时候上这个BBS吗?
|
f******2
发帖数: 2455 | 72 不一定,很多人很晚睡看八卦.
【在 i******s 的大作中提到】
: 一天睡4 个小时还来上bbs?
|
D*******a
发帖数: 3688 | 73 qilu刚进雅虎的时候不是当头的吧。他在那里做vp engineering是多少年的事情？雅虎
的失败全归在他头上是不公平的。另一方面，他去ms之后，bing的发展有板有眼，一个
一个百分点地抢来market share，也是不争的事实。
当然你可以说这是烧钱的结果。不过你要了解google在search的投入的资源是bing的多
少倍，就知道bing今天的现状也是很不容易的了。bing最大的问题不是搜索质量（有双
盲测试表明），而是monetizing能力太差了，很多搜索页都没广告。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 大家牛粪take多了, 人愤反而不习惯了. 露脐这段经历他自己的几个版本都不一致.
: 一个是roommate找他, 一个是教授找他, 一个是Ed Clark要了看他的论文, 一会儿只是
: 他向Ed提起他有论文. 向开复一样, 这人也自吹是SCS第二个中国人. 俺记得Ed
: Clark在96之前就毕业过中国学生, 好象没有陆奇. 当然有可能是LQ读得早, 毕业晚.
: 读了八年. CMU SCS是有读七八年的, 不过象他这样只有一篇文章的还是挺少的. 按
: 文章看, 他的导师并不是Ed Clark. 似乎和Clark也没什么交情. 提他应该是因为Ed
: Clark前两年评了图灵奖. 他自己的导师似乎他没有提过.
: 奇怪的是, 和惠民博士一样, 有人对他几点睡, 几点起特熟悉. 翻过来说过去, 这
: 基本上就是他是牛人的证据.
: 他的个人经历不好说. 但他的战绩是明摆着. 基本上和google一起开始作search,
|
P*****f
发帖数: 2272 | 74 从简介上看，Qi Lu貌似主要负责广告这一块？
.
只是
晚.
Ed
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: qilu刚进雅虎的时候不是当头的吧。他在那里做vp engineering是多少年的事情？雅虎
: 的失败全归在他头上是不公平的。另一方面，他去ms之后，bing的发展有板有眼，一个
: 一个百分点地抢来market share，也是不争的事实。
: 当然你可以说这是烧钱的结果。不过你要了解google在search的投入的资源是bing的多
: 少倍，就知道bing今天的现状也是很不容易的了。bing最大的问题不是搜索质量（有双
: 盲测试表明），而是monetizing能力太差了，很多搜索页都没广告。
|
D*******a
发帖数: 3688 | 75 microsoft online service应该包括msn, bing, advertising三个部门。
【在 P*****f 的大作中提到】
: 从简介上看，Qi Lu貌似主要负责广告这一块？
:
: .
: 只是
: 晚.
: Ed
|
P*****f
发帖数: 2272 | 76 当然我知道他是整个online service的老大。
我是说专长这块？在yahoo搞的panama,然后貌似msft对aquantitative这一块也不知道咱
整，就把qi lu搞过去？
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: microsoft online service应该包括msn, bing, advertising三个部门。
|
i****c
发帖数: 110 | 77 Qi Lu在MS主抓Search，从7%的市场提高到15%。沈向阳也出力很多。Qi和Harry比起前任最大的改变是将原本几乎各自为战的Research和Engineering整合到一起。
Ads是MS最混乱的部门，没有之一，直到现在David Ku的想法也不能完全实施，经常被迫做妥协。
如果Ads有Google的一半的效率（RPS），MS的OSD早已经可以盈利了。
道咱
【在 P*****f 的大作中提到】
: 当然我知道他是整个online service的老大。
: 我是说专长这块？在yahoo搞的panama,然后貌似msft对aquantitative这一块也不知道咱
: 整，就把qi lu搞过去？
|
s*****o
发帖数: 1540 | 78 你这个perse (盐)是从哪里蹦出来的弱智啊？
80，90年代研究生留校做助教的多的是。
中文英文都狗屁不通，还在这里上蹦下串。
and
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: 他这个master研究生助教也能算fudan的Falcuty? 这比李开复吹牛是CMU教授强吗??
: 而且他的paper似乎很难查. 就一篇. 导师似乎也并不是Ed Clark...
: >>Before joining Yahoo!, Dr. Lu worked as a research staff member at IBM's
: Almaden Research Center and Carnegie Mellon University and was a faculty
: member at Fudan University in China. He received his bachelor of science and
: master of science in computer science from Fudan University and his Ph.D.
: in computer science from Carnegie Mellon University. Dr. Lu holds 20 U.S.
: patents.
|
s*****o
发帖数: 1540 | 79 第一:申请费以前是绝对可以免掉的。不光是一个大教授能免，一个小蜜挥笔就能免。
你见过十年前中国学生申请的哭穷信么？就是说俺爹一个月才挣180人民币，合计30美
金不到。你一个学校就是我们全家不吃不喝2个月。请免除。这种信见多了，学校一般
都免除了。
第二：一个人申请10所以上，不申请免掉申请费，绝对是非常大的开支。90年代初一个
人工资才200，300人民币一个月。
第三：机票人家不给免啊，不交钱不让坐飞机。你就是借钱，也得把飞机票借来。何况
飞机票是飞跃重洋已经成功，申请费是10所有9所打水漂。
弱智小留拿父母钱来留学，看见穷人要饿死了，叫着”何不吃肉丸子“。
天生的弱智是不会因为留学而改变的。
【在 p***e 的大作中提到】
: If he can borrow money to buy a ticket, he can't borrow money
: to pay application?
: As nice as Ed Clark may be, I don't think it is up to a professor
: to waive the application fee... besides, I found nowhere anyone
: mentioned that he was Ed Clark's student.
: In his life time before he become a management star, it seems there
: were only 3 searchable first author technical paper -- if you don't
: include the coda manual he participated in writing.
: The only English paper he could show Ed Clark at that time
: was probably 1? Of course, I don't know if Ed Clark was very
|
l*********1
发帖数: 936 | 80 perse, 你碰到qi lu 的范儿了，活该挨骂。
说句公道话，我在qi lu手下干过，很不感冒他的风格。他不仅仅是成天把一天睡4个小
时挂在嘴上，他是经常在11pm安排staff meeting 的。刻苦是刻苦，但是结果呢？
他至少从05年就全面掌管yahoo 的search + ads， yahoo 就搞成那样，他要付很大一
部分责任吧。
现在又把他手下那帮VP搞到msft, 在osd 上层搞大换血。但是这帮人在yahoo搞不好，
搬到微软就能搞好了？就因为微软舍得每年在online烧2billion? 阶级斗争搞这么利害
，估计更没时间追google 了。
其实追不上google 就不要追了，换个战场。yahoo, 微软在online 烧的钱够开好几个
facebook 了。可惜qi lu 好像钻牛角尖了，把google 当作personal enemy。为了和
google斗不惜抛弃对他有知遇之恩的杨致远，投奔microsoft.
【在 s*****o 的大作中提到】
: 你这个perse (盐)是从哪里蹦出来的弱智啊？
: 80，90年代研究生留校做助教的多的是。
: 中文英文都狗屁不通，还在这里上蹦下串。
:
: and
|
|
|
o*******0
发帖数: 699 | 81 貌似qi lu 在雅虎失势，辞职在家待业一段才来的微软。之前打算回国创业了。雅虎是
把他搞得东东砍了？
【在 l*********1 的大作中提到】
: perse, 你碰到qi lu 的范儿了，活该挨骂。
: 说句公道话，我在qi lu手下干过，很不感冒他的风格。他不仅仅是成天把一天睡4个小
: 时挂在嘴上，他是经常在11pm安排staff meeting 的。刻苦是刻苦，但是结果呢？
: 他至少从05年就全面掌管yahoo 的search + ads， yahoo 就搞成那样，他要付很大一
: 部分责任吧。
: 现在又把他手下那帮VP搞到msft, 在osd 上层搞大换血。但是这帮人在yahoo搞不好，
: 搬到微软就能搞好了？就因为微软舍得每年在online烧2billion? 阶级斗争搞这么利害
: ，估计更没时间追google 了。
: 其实追不上google 就不要追了，换个战场。yahoo, 微软在online 烧的钱够开好几个
: facebook 了。可惜qi lu 好像钻牛角尖了，把google 当作personal enemy。为了和
|
l*********1
发帖数: 936 | 82 他的东东就是搜索，广告，雅虎决定不搞了，要和古歌合作（这就是杨致远那年的第二
大臭棋了，和古歌合作不是与虎谋皮吗？当然后来因为反托拉斯法也没搞成）。
他辞职时的说法是家有老父，要回国。好像有传言说baidu和facebook 要让他做cto,不
知是真是假。他创业是不大可能的。冲着他在雅虎和微软的成就，我觉得他不太适合创
业。做cto 倒是不错。
结果他也没回国，过了一个多月就去了微软。具体的细节就没人知道了。
微软雇他还是很赚的。后来微软和雅虎谈判，雅虎所有的底牌微软都一清二楚，最终的
合同对微软非常有利。
【在 o*******0 的大作中提到】
: 貌似qi lu 在雅虎失势，辞职在家待业一段才来的微软。之前打算回国创业了。雅虎是
: 把他搞得东东砍了？
|
w**a
发帖数: 4743 | 83 这为马甲同学是不是有时候自我矛盾? 前面你说打不过google就不要打，另开辟战场就
好。后面你说和google合作是与虎谋皮。
战也不行，和也不行.那，按你的想法，Yahoo该怎么处理search和搜索ads业务？
【在 l*********1 的大作中提到】
: 他的东东就是搜索，广告，雅虎决定不搞了，要和古歌合作（这就是杨致远那年的第二
: 大臭棋了，和古歌合作不是与虎谋皮吗？当然后来因为反托拉斯法也没搞成）。
: 他辞职时的说法是家有老父，要回国。好像有传言说baidu和facebook 要让他做cto,不
: 知是真是假。他创业是不大可能的。冲着他在雅虎和微软的成就，我觉得他不太适合创
: 业。做cto 倒是不错。
: 结果他也没回国，过了一个多月就去了微软。具体的细节就没人知道了。
: 微软雇他还是很赚的。后来微软和雅虎谈判，雅虎所有的底牌微软都一清二楚，最终的
: 合同对微软非常有利。
|
l*********1
发帖数: 936 | 84 我说不和google打的意思是不要和他在search 上竞争。可以换个领域竞争。
和google 合作的最大问题还是司法部不可能通过。
yahoo 当年最好的选择就是把自己整个卖给微软。被杨致远搞砸了。
【在 w**a 的大作中提到】
: 这为马甲同学是不是有时候自我矛盾? 前面你说打不过google就不要打，另开辟战场就
: 好。后面你说和google合作是与虎谋皮。
: 战也不行，和也不行.那，按你的想法，Yahoo该怎么处理search和搜索ads业务？
|
D*******a
发帖数: 3688 | 85 故事好像是这样的，qilu在yahoo干得心灰意冷。msft的deal吹了之后他不知道接下来
要干嘛。这时候steve ballmer和不知道谁(yusuf medhi?）找他吃饭，请教live
search应该怎么做。当时本来sb没想到要请他的，只是随便问他接下来打算干嘛，他说
可能会去vc，或者去中国。sb饭后一拍脑袋，说干脆把他挖来搞live search得了。于
是就有了后面的事情。
当然了，这些都是媒体报道的故事，真假就不得而知了。
【在 l*********1 的大作中提到】
: 他的东东就是搜索，广告，雅虎决定不搞了，要和古歌合作（这就是杨致远那年的第二
: 大臭棋了，和古歌合作不是与虎谋皮吗？当然后来因为反托拉斯法也没搞成）。
: 他辞职时的说法是家有老父，要回国。好像有传言说baidu和facebook 要让他做cto,不
: 知是真是假。他创业是不大可能的。冲着他在雅虎和微软的成就，我觉得他不太适合创
: 业。做cto 倒是不错。
: 结果他也没回国，过了一个多月就去了微软。具体的细节就没人知道了。
: 微软雇他还是很赚的。后来微软和雅虎谈判，雅虎所有的底牌微软都一清二楚，最终的
: 合同对微软非常有利。
|
p***e
发帖数: 1318 | 86 一将无能, 累死三军. Ballmer本身就full of it, 估计也不敢找牛人.
【在 l*********1 的大作中提到】
: perse, 你碰到qi lu 的范儿了，活该挨骂。
: 说句公道话，我在qi lu手下干过，很不感冒他的风格。他不仅仅是成天把一天睡4个小
: 时挂在嘴上，他是经常在11pm安排staff meeting 的。刻苦是刻苦，但是结果呢？
: 他至少从05年就全面掌管yahoo 的search + ads， yahoo 就搞成那样，他要付很大一
: 部分责任吧。
: 现在又把他手下那帮VP搞到msft, 在osd 上层搞大换血。但是这帮人在yahoo搞不好，
: 搬到微软就能搞好了？就因为微软舍得每年在online烧2billion? 阶级斗争搞这么利害
: ，估计更没时间追google 了。
: 其实追不上google 就不要追了，换个战场。yahoo, 微软在online 烧的钱够开好几个
: facebook 了。可惜qi lu 好像钻牛角尖了，把google 当作personal enemy。为了和
|
N***G
发帖数: 408 | 87 我听别人说他一天就睡3-4个小时，长年累月，干劲十足，咱们正常人还是别拼了，小
命要紧。 |
