a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 1 89之后，规模，发生和持续时间，目标，暴力程度，outcome，framing，等等。然后做
点分析。 |
l****t
发帖数: 25 | 2 sorry, typo. This project is very ambitious. But, it seems very diffuclt
to collect relevant information. By the way, what do you mean, when you
talk about collective action? It would be extremely diffult to collect
information about non-conventional political behaviors (such as
demonstration) in China. So, alvarado, you are going to work on this, are
you? |
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 3 i'm not sure whether i will pursue this or not. i just got a feeling that
social movements studies about China and most parts of the world are usually
dealing with one or two cases. although i myself did some small-n studies,
those studies are quite vulnerable in terms of methodology. i do have a
theoretical framework about discursive political opportunity and framing,
and find it work well in several cases. but i need more data to prove it.
some scholars did similar thing on us-based collective
【在 l****t 的大作中提到】
: sorry, typo. This project is very ambitious. But, it seems very diffuclt
: to collect relevant information. By the way, what do you mean, when you
: talk about collective action? It would be extremely diffult to collect
: information about non-conventional political behaviors (such as
: demonstration) in China. So, alvarado, you are going to work on this, are
: you?
|
l****t
发帖数: 25 | 4 Is Mcadam your advisor? I am quite interested in the non-conventional
political activities. However, I do realize the difficulty of studying the
non-conventional political behaviors, especially in China. You do suggest a
feasible way to collect information by using media source. I guess, this
project will take lots of time, but I believe, it will make some interesting
breakthroughs. By the way, are you going to create a time-series (for
exaple, 1990-present) nation-wide database? or a smal |
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 5 glad to know you like this.
mcadam is not my advisor, but i read some of his articles. to be honest, i'm
not a real social movement person. i approach social movement from another
field and then find it interesting.
for this temporary and indefinitive idea, i propose we can gather data from
several sources of press reports. of course, some small scale collective
actions would be ignored, like twenty people' sit-ins. but this is as far as
we can go now. every method has its limitation, but we sho
【在 l****t 的大作中提到】
: Is Mcadam your advisor? I am quite interested in the non-conventional
: political activities. However, I do realize the difficulty of studying the
: non-conventional political behaviors, especially in China. You do suggest a
: feasible way to collect information by using media source. I guess, this
: project will take lots of time, but I believe, it will make some interesting
: breakthroughs. By the way, are you going to create a time-series (for
: exaple, 1990-present) nation-wide database? or a smal
|
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 6 you can talk more about your interest and case if you have one in mind.
i just finish a paper on chinese war reparations movement and am presenting
it on a conference next week. but it needs more work, both field work (which
i will do in this coming summer) and theoretical examination.
the
a
interesting
will
【在 l****t 的大作中提到】
: Is Mcadam your advisor? I am quite interested in the non-conventional
: political activities. However, I do realize the difficulty of studying the
: non-conventional political behaviors, especially in China. You do suggest a
: feasible way to collect information by using media source. I guess, this
: project will take lots of time, but I believe, it will make some interesting
: breakthroughs. By the way, are you going to create a time-series (for
: exaple, 1990-present) nation-wide database? or a smal
|
h****t
发帖数: 632 | 7 国内把这类事件叫做“群体性事件，”，北大好像有人写过近年来的涉日群体性事件。
如果有大量时间或有钱雇人看历年国内外报纸，进行整理搜集，也不是不可能。不过我
的一个ｃｏｎｃｅｒｎ就是定义问题，除了常规的游行，静坐，集体上访，暴动等常规
行为外，网上的算不算呢？比如MIT上的大坑，天涯上的在线声讨之类的。还有就是谁
和谁是ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ，常规理解是国家和社会，或官民冲突，但貌似行为者的数量和
角色正在增多，民工对工头，工人对企业主，还有各种各样的民族或地区村庄冲突。。。
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: 89之后，规模，发生和持续时间，目标，暴力程度，outcome，framing，等等。然后做
: 点分析。
|
s******1
发帖数: 239 | 8 Alvarado, this kind of project proposal is very interesting and promising. I
would like to participate (if possible) in the future(my primary interest
is IR, and I am also interested in domestic source of Chinese foreign policy
, particularly Chinese nationalism).
presenting
which
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: you can talk more about your interest and case if you have one in mind.
: i just finish a paper on chinese war reparations movement and am presenting
: it on a conference next week. but it needs more work, both field work (which
: i will do in this coming summer) and theoretical examination.
:
: the
: a
: interesting
: will
|
l****t
发帖数: 25 | 9 please count me. I am interested in collective complaints at higher levels
of government (jiti shangfang). In recent years, I am also interested in
the home owners' rightful resistance (yezhu weiquan). Because my background
is comparative politics, I have quite different approach to the study of
these non-conventional political behaviors. But, I believe, we can
establish a more general database to include more variables as possible, so
that scholars from different disciplines may work togeth |
g**n
发帖数: 21 | 10 If you consider to go back China in the future, you'd better not to touch
upon this topic....interesting and promising though.
So far, the best paper I've done here in US is dealing with FLG (kind of
social movement, right? hehe). My point is absolutely neutral. However, one
Chinese professor working here (also in the field of social science) even
stops me from presenting it at conference. He has US citizenship and is well
-connected to China. I believe that his advice would be helpful. |
|
|
s******1
发帖数: 239 | 11 The advice of that Chinese professor is wise, of course: FLG could be a
research topic if it is understood as a social movement or transnational
network. But it is too controversial at current stage.Even we pretend to be
social "scientists", we can not disregard the political reality/policy
implications of our research projects.
Many social science projects on China are politically "sensentive." However,
some of those topics can still be analyzed empirically: anti-Japanese
movements, "rightful |
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 12 如果是collective action，可能还可以包括疯狂的演唱会，节日游行，等等。当然这
显然是太大了。
你说的其他的角色当然是考虑在内。
但就是一操作性定义和理论性定义的问题，操作定义要考虑可操作性，是否能在现有的
data的情况下获得资料，并且arbitrarily限定一定范围。
至于具体方法，已经有一篇方法论的总结，还有几篇经验论文，但我一下想不起来了：
Ruud Koopmans and Dieter Rucht, "Protest Event Analysis", pp.231-259 in
Methods of Social Movement Research edited by Bert Klandermans and Suzanne
Staggenborg, 2002
需要有大量的coding和content analysis过程，好处是不论历史分析和定量分析都可以
充分利用
。。
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 国内把这类事件叫做“群体性事件，”，北大好像有人写过近年来的涉日群体性事件。
: 如果有大量时间或有钱雇人看历年国内外报纸，进行整理搜集，也不是不可能。不过我
: 的一个ｃｏｎｃｅｒｎ就是定义问题，除了常规的游行，静坐，集体上访，暴动等常规
: 行为外，网上的算不算呢？比如MIT上的大坑，天涯上的在线声讨之类的。还有就是谁
: 和谁是ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ，常规理解是国家和社会，或官民冲突，但貌似行为者的数量和
: 角色正在增多，民工对工头，工人对企业主，还有各种各样的民族或地区村庄冲突。。。
|
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 13 "rightful resistence" (Obrien and Li 2006)
yes, this is the concept i meant to call your attention. thanks for pointing
it out
be
However,
【在 s******1 的大作中提到】
: The advice of that Chinese professor is wise, of course: FLG could be a
: research topic if it is understood as a social movement or transnational
: network. But it is too controversial at current stage.Even we pretend to be
: social "scientists", we can not disregard the political reality/policy
: implications of our research projects.
: Many social science projects on China are politically "sensentive." However,
: some of those topics can still be analyzed empirically: anti-Japanese
: movements, "rightful
|
k***g
发帖数: 7244 | 14 嗯，是挺有意思的，就是数据收集阶段可能比较辛苦，并且存在一些问题，譬如同一件
事情的规模，国内外的报道经常相差很远，国内通常有故意压低之嫌，而国外又通常有
故意提高之嫌，如果真正去实地考证，这个工作量就太大了。
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: 89之后，规模，发生和持续时间，目标，暴力程度，outcome，framing，等等。然后做
: 点分析。
|
k***g
发帖数: 7244 | 15 呵呵，我觉得还是看你切入的角度，就像台湾问题一样，虽然敏感但是并不是不能做。
one
well
【在 g**n 的大作中提到】
: If you consider to go back China in the future, you'd better not to touch
: upon this topic....interesting and promising though.
: So far, the best paper I've done here in US is dealing with FLG (kind of
: social movement, right? hehe). My point is absolutely neutral. However, one
: Chinese professor working here (also in the field of social science) even
: stops me from presenting it at conference. He has US citizenship and is well
: -connected to China. I believe that his advice would be helpful.
|
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 16 这的确是一个数据，我还没看相关经验研究怎么处理这个问题
不过可以用cross-reference和set range相对减少一点误差，比如不同报道在多少人和
多少人之间是可以确定的，一般来说可以认定规模
还有，国内的报道一般不会具体到人数，而且对于collective action都是侧面的，
normative的报道而非事实的陈述。比如一个静坐事件发生之后，报道常常以“国务院
发言人强调社会稳定和处理好XX问题”。
【在 k***g 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，是挺有意思的，就是数据收集阶段可能比较辛苦，并且存在一些问题，譬如同一件
: 事情的规模，国内外的报道经常相差很远，国内通常有故意压低之嫌，而国外又通常有
: 故意提高之嫌，如果真正去实地考证，这个工作量就太大了。
|
x*****a
发帖数: 79 | 17 /raise
我也很感兴趣，其实类似制度性或者非制度性的political behavior以及public
opinion都可以搞搞数据库。搞全国的难度大，可以弄一个区域的或者一个城市的或者
一类事件的先。 |
d*******1
发帖数: 77 | 18 同意.很多地方政府门口,天天一堆人.不过想想什么是原因也许挺有意思,以前是国企下
岗,如今也许是迁地,学校不发文凭,能不能预测下一步是什么问题?
对了,前几个月北京是为了不虐待宠物.
我觉得政府有关部门会有这方面的材料,民政,公安等.估计也会有报告给决策者,只是我
们接触不到.
。。
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 国内把这类事件叫做“群体性事件，”，北大好像有人写过近年来的涉日群体性事件。
: 如果有大量时间或有钱雇人看历年国内外报纸，进行整理搜集，也不是不可能。不过我
: 的一个ｃｏｎｃｅｒｎ就是定义问题，除了常规的游行，静坐，集体上访，暴动等常规
: 行为外，网上的算不算呢？比如MIT上的大坑，天涯上的在线声讨之类的。还有就是谁
: 和谁是ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ，常规理解是国家和社会，或官民冲突，但貌似行为者的数量和
: 角色正在增多，民工对工头，工人对企业主，还有各种各样的民族或地区村庄冲突。。。
|
s**a
发帖数: 8648 | 19 我也觉得是，不要觉得一定政治敏感就不能做，这种自我censorship挺可怕的。芝大的
赵鼎新老师做六四，够敏感了吧？现在回国也还是司空见惯。
【在 k***g 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，我觉得还是看你切入的角度，就像台湾问题一样，虽然敏感但是并不是不能做。
:
: one
: well
|
k***g
发帖数: 7244 | 20 这个确实一个不错的co-author的题目，有空了可以在版上讨论一下，拟个proposal，然
后申请一下funding，试着做做？
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: 这的确是一个数据，我还没看相关经验研究怎么处理这个问题
: 不过可以用cross-reference和set range相对减少一点误差，比如不同报道在多少人和
: 多少人之间是可以确定的，一般来说可以认定规模
: 还有，国内的报道一般不会具体到人数，而且对于collective action都是侧面的，
: normative的报道而非事实的陈述。比如一个静坐事件发生之后，报道常常以“国务院
: 发言人强调社会稳定和处理好XX问题”。
|
|
|
h***a
发帖数: 2 | 21 Collective actions 是一个很容易混淆的概念，尤其在使用到不同文化/社会中时更是
如此。能做一个数据库当然好，不过我个人觉得还是从一个一个具体的案例讨论起更有
益于发展中国的敏感性概念。
西方的社会/国家 分立模式在中国不太实用。作为一个“社会运动社会”，西方有着各
种各样的社会运动。中国则是一个政治中心社会，古代以皇权为中心，近代以政党为中
心。中国的问题更多的是政治运动，以及过多的政治运动带来的后遗症。中国的社会运
动恐怕要等到物权法落到实处的多年以后方才有可能。 |
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 22 not really
take some movements for example: environmentalist movement, anti-AIDS
movement, reparations movement, etc. the dichotomy between "social" movement
and "political" movement is also questionable. i don't know any movement in
china or elsewhere that is not political.
【在 h***a 的大作中提到】
: Collective actions 是一个很容易混淆的概念，尤其在使用到不同文化/社会中时更是
: 如此。能做一个数据库当然好，不过我个人觉得还是从一个一个具体的案例讨论起更有
: 益于发展中国的敏感性概念。
: 西方的社会/国家 分立模式在中国不太实用。作为一个“社会运动社会”，西方有着各
: 种各样的社会运动。中国则是一个政治中心社会，古代以皇权为中心，近代以政党为中
: 心。中国的问题更多的是政治运动，以及过多的政治运动带来的后遗症。中国的社会运
: 动恐怕要等到物权法落到实处的多年以后方才有可能。
|
h***a
发帖数: 2 | 23
movement
in
首先，社会运动和集体行为是不同的范畴，虽然二者有交集。另外，国内常用的群体性
事件又与前两个概念不一样。
其次，environmentalist movement, anti-AIDS movement在目前的西方社会运动研究
中属于“新社会运动”的范畴，即和以往的以政治诉求为特征的社会运动不同，新社会
运动强调的是生活方式的改变，新社会运动的参加者也不以政党为主体，而是涵盖各类
社会阶层。
最后，政治运动在西方和在中国有着不同的动力机制，因此很难以西方的概念来套用中
国的情况，也不能用中国的运动都是政治运动来模糊每一个具体案例的焦点。
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】
: not really
: take some movements for example: environmentalist movement, anti-AIDS
: movement, reparations movement, etc. the dichotomy between "social" movement
: and "political" movement is also questionable. i don't know any movement in
: china or elsewhere that is not political.
|
a******o
发帖数: 1197 | 24 "中国则是一个政治中心社会，古代以皇权为中心，近代以政党为中
this is what you said. you're confusing me now by self-contradictory
statements in two posts.
another issue: it is really easy to argue western concepts don't work for
china. that might be the case. however, the problem is we don't have
alternative methodological and theoretical tools. |
v**u
发帖数: 31 | 25 hehe, i think this is a good idea. we should compile a dataset of online
collective (discursive?) actions. should be a lot of fun...
。。
【在 h****t 的大作中提到】
: 国内把这类事件叫做“群体性事件，”，北大好像有人写过近年来的涉日群体性事件。
: 如果有大量时间或有钱雇人看历年国内外报纸，进行整理搜集，也不是不可能。不过我
: 的一个ｃｏｎｃｅｒｎ就是定义问题，除了常规的游行，静坐，集体上访，暴动等常规
: 行为外，网上的算不算呢？比如MIT上的大坑，天涯上的在线声讨之类的。还有就是谁
: 和谁是ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ，常规理解是国家和社会，或官民冲突，但貌似行为者的数量和
: 角色正在增多，民工对工头，工人对企业主，还有各种各样的民族或地区村庄冲突。。。
|
