n********y
发帖数: 312 | | n********y
发帖数: 312 | 2 早些年的MICROSOFT也是, 哥去面试面得一团糟都被拉进去了，一看就是炮灰。
【在 n********y 的大作中提到】
: 前面有人说了YAHOO. FLG不知道怎么样？
| c****k
发帖数: 85 | 3 It sounds totally weird that they are getting out of some guy who were hired
just half year ago because they are not doing their job well ...
I have only heard company get out their long-stay workforce because of their
cost or tenure and hire new guys. Or keep hiring freeze and let people go.
But have never heard keep hiring and firing with the same group of people.
The hiring process actually cost 1 year pay for the guy hired, sometime even
more. Most of the companies will keep the hiring process seriously and to
minimize the risk for the turning-over. If you hire a guy and let him leave
in 6 month, you actually pay the cost about 1.5 years him annual salary and
which does not include the severance pay. It also give a very bad record for
hiring managers, indicating either there is a problem in his hiring process
, his ramp-up training is not sufficient or issue in his personality, etc.
Whatever is never a positive sign.
According to the posting, if they let 10% new hiring leave in every 6 month.
They are losing 20% of their new hiring in each year and spend 1.5 year
annual salary on these 20%. This number is even noticeable from the finance
report, and would be spotted by the investors. I don't think it make sense
at all. | H**********5
发帖数: 2012 | 4 一点都不weird，招新人当炮灰是典型的大公司的
公司强制淘汰制度和部门保护老员工的政治对抗的结果，
公司强制性的对每个部门实行淘汰制度，
部门如何对抗，留住老员工和管理人员，
很简单，不停的找新员工，试用期不到，或是刚过试用期，
随便找个理由把你开掉，不要太圆滑，
即保住了老员工，管理层，
又能提升HR的业绩，重新去招新人。
可怜的是那些刚毕业的新人，屁颠屁颠的以为被大公司
录取了，心里太高兴，结果被人卖了还在帮人数钱，
简历上半年工作经历，不好看。
以我个人经历：一般喜欢找新人炮灰的是大公司，
小公司,STARTUP基本不会。
hired
their
.
even
leave
and
for
【在 c****k 的大作中提到】
: It sounds totally weird that they are getting out of some guy who were hired
: just half year ago because they are not doing their job well ...
: I have only heard company get out their long-stay workforce because of their
: cost or tenure and hire new guys. Or keep hiring freeze and let people go.
: But have never heard keep hiring and firing with the same group of people.
: The hiring process actually cost 1 year pay for the guy hired, sometime even
: more. Most of the companies will keep the hiring process seriously and to
: minimize the risk for the turning-over. If you hire a guy and let him leave
: in 6 month, you actually pay the cost about 1.5 years him annual salary and
: which does not include the severance pay. It also give a very bad record for
| c****k
发帖数: 85 | 5 Your word sounds right at certain point.
But, it is not like what you think and actually it is not depends the mid-
level management. Most of IT companies need at least VP to CEO level to
approve for hiring and firing. And when to time they decide to lower down
the cost they usually start from the most high-paid staffs. Not too much
things can be done with just managers or directors. It does not matter how
much your managers like you or hate you. In such a kind of large level
organization changes, they really have not too much influence. Of course,
politics is also a key, but it usually only effect people who are in the
same category (the salary, age, level, or skill set,...) it can not be only
for new fresh hired. Saying or thinking in this way is not very positive and
biased.
| c********l
发帖数: 8138 | 6 hiring赶得上1年的工资成本？这玩笑开得太大了
The hiring process actually cost 1 year pay for the guy hired, sometime even
more. If you hire a guy and let him leave in 6 month, you actually pay
the cost about 1.5 years him annual salary and
hired
their
.
even
leave
and
for
【在 c****k 的大作中提到】
: It sounds totally weird that they are getting out of some guy who were hired
: just half year ago because they are not doing their job well ...
: I have only heard company get out their long-stay workforce because of their
: cost or tenure and hire new guys. Or keep hiring freeze and let people go.
: But have never heard keep hiring and firing with the same group of people.
: The hiring process actually cost 1 year pay for the guy hired, sometime even
: more. Most of the companies will keep the hiring process seriously and to
: minimize the risk for the turning-over. If you hire a guy and let him leave
: in 6 month, you actually pay the cost about 1.5 years him annual salary and
: which does not include the severance pay. It also give a very bad record for
| c****k
发帖数: 85 | 7 It is a minimum cost in big companies. Let me break down.
1. New fresh grad usually needs to ramp up to the new environment. So they
will not be productive in 3 to 6 month. During this period,the company pay
you to learn...
2. Sign-on bonus/relocation which can vary from 10k to 30k, case by case.
3. Interview directly cost: Hotels, flight, rental car, etc. If you are not
local candidate, it usually to be 1k to 2k depends on how far you are.
4. The cost for recruiters, most companies only hire/expand recruiters
during hiring seasons. Of course, you need to pay them salaries.
5. The time from the people involved your interview process. You need to be
interview for several rounds during onsite and each of them has to reserve
their time. They cost 40 to 60 per hour... and you hiring manager need to
spend much time in hiring meeting...
6. One-time cost for you are on-board, fees used to setup your benefit, fees
for you visa sponsorship, fees for your working environment/computers...
OK. So, lets assume you are graduate from school and get hired with an
annual salary of 100k + 10k sign-on and 5k relocation. After 6 month and
company let you go. How much it costs to the company?
50k salary paid to you with limited work contribution
15k sign-on and relocation
2k Interview directly cost
5K for your visa (H1B filing + layer fee)
1k for interviewer's hourly cost (8 people with each one hour spent on you
+ hiring meetings)
2k for you workplace environment setup (benefit enrollment, computers and
others ...)
Its totally 80k which is 80% of your annual salary (benefit such as healthy
insurance, 401k match, stocks are not included).
In addition, to let you go they usually offer severance packages.
And there are many thing hard to be itemized to let people go...
It is very easy to cost 1 year annually pay. If your manager let you leave
in 6 month, he just tells the company that either my hiring process has
problem OR my leadership has problem...
| i***n
发帖数: 47 | 8 It's good to see a quality reply like this; and the break-up list is about
right.
You come to the conclusion yourself that it's sum up to 80% of annual salary
, which is below the 1.5 year you claimed before, but that's ok too. We can
even assume in the first 6 months the person really contributes nothing to
the company.
However, the point you were really missing is that fact that only a small
percentage of people are let go, say 10%. So it's the 10% x 80% = 8% of the
total annual salary. The remaining of the 90% will be scared and work
overtimes to compete with each other so that they are not in the bottom 10%.
This improves their average productivity to anything between 100% to 200%,
let's say it's 130% ... assuming they work over time 2 hours a day -- I
know many engineers work much longer than that, but let's not argue about
that.
130% more productivity v.s. 8% extra cost to 'weed out the low-performance
workers'. Is that attractive to you if you are the boss? Isn't it a
perfect formula to boost the productivity?
There is only one thing that could undermine this perfect formula: people
get educated and become aware of their tricks; and they become so low in
moral that they either not apply or switch to other companies who do not
apply this stack-ranking policy. Only this can force the companies to stop
this practice.
not
be
【在 c****k 的大作中提到】
: It is a minimum cost in big companies. Let me break down.
: 1. New fresh grad usually needs to ramp up to the new environment. So they
: will not be productive in 3 to 6 month. During this period,the company pay
: you to learn...
: 2. Sign-on bonus/relocation which can vary from 10k to 30k, case by case.
: 3. Interview directly cost: Hotels, flight, rental car, etc. If you are not
: local candidate, it usually to be 1k to 2k depends on how far you are.
: 4. The cost for recruiters, most companies only hire/expand recruiters
: during hiring seasons. Of course, you need to pay them salaries.
: 5. The time from the people involved your interview process. You need to be
| c*****a
发帖数: 808 | | c****k
发帖数: 85 | 10 I dont think companies would like to push people working hard by firing new
graduates and keep hiring. If the company has a cost concern, it usually
reduce the workforce size but also freeze the hiring, especially for new
graduates. The only thing to explain the why they hire and fire in such a
short term might be that they changed the plan due to some unexpected
reasons. Maybe their project of revenue dropped or they canceled some
projects. Anyway they dont need so much entry level guys now. |
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